Beaufighter I X7704(?)

[guy]

Re-reading 'The Armed Rovers' by Roy C. Nesbitt he refers to an field
mod by 252 Squadron on Beaufghter I X7704, where the 4x20mm Cannon
were replaced by a 40mm Bofors (***not*** a Vickers 40mm).
This was test flown by a Canadian Stanley J Kernaghan (probably a
Flight Sargeant), and the trials proved succesfull, the intention
being to use this in the anti tank role. However the aircraft was
written off by another pilot during a follow up test flight.
The date would be around September/october 1942.

So - does anyone have any more info on this Beaufighter - I am
suspicious of the actual serial as this is also the serial of one of
the last RAAF Beaufighters.

Also, was an AP round developed for the Bofors?

Guy

[Peter Skelton]

On Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:07:19 -0800 (PST), guy

Post by guy
Re-reading 'The Armed Rovers' by Roy C. Nesbitt he refers to an field
mod by 252 Squadron on Beaufghter I X7704, where the 4x20mm Cannon
were replaced by a 40mm Bofors (***not*** a Vickers 40mm).
This was test flown by a Canadian Stanley J Kernaghan (probably a
Flight Sargeant), and the trials proved succesfull, the intention
being to use this in the anti tank role. However the aircraft was
written off by another pilot during a follow up test flight.
The date would be around September/october 1942.
So - does anyone have any more info on this Beaufighter - I am
suspicious of the actual serial as this is also the serial of one of
the last RAAF Beaufighters.
Also, was an AP round developed for the Bofors?

The USN had an AP round for the Bofors, the RN an SAP. Both were
solid rounds with a brass lubricating cap. ITSM that the
difference was nomenclature, not design.


Peter Skelton

[Rob Arndt]

The British fielded only one airborne gun in the anti-tank role: the
Vickers Class S. This was designed around the naval 40x158R AA case,
with special armour-piercing loadings. As such, it was much less
powerful than the Army's 2 pdr anti-tank gun, but the attack speed of
the aircraft helped to provide a penetration quoted as 50-55mm (range
and striking angle not specified). This was a long-recoil gun which
was fed by a 15-round drum (a sixteenth round could be carried in the
chamber). A 30-round drum and a belt-fed version were developed but
not adopted. The same fate befell an interesting adaptation to use the
Littlejohn squeezebore shot. The AP projectiles fired were full-
calibre steel shot, without even a ballistic cap.

The British developed other weapons for this purpose. The 6 pdr (57
mm) Molins gun was intended for this role, but used only by Coastal
Command. The 47mm Class P gun was not ready until after the war.

Rob

[guy]

Post by Rob Arndt
The British fielded only one airborne gun in the anti-tank role: the
Vickers Class S. This was designed around the naval 40x158R AA case,
with special armour-piercing loadings. As such, it was much less
powerful than the Army's 2 pdr anti-tank gun, but the attack speed of
the aircraft helped to provide a penetration quoted as 50-55mm (range
and striking angle not specified). This was a long-recoil gun which
was fed by a 15-round drum (a sixteenth round could be carried in the
chamber). A 30-round drum and a belt-fed version were developed but
not adopted. The same fate befell an interesting adaptation to use the
Littlejohn squeezebore shot. The AP projectiles fired were full-
calibre steel shot, without even a ballistic cap.
The British developed other weapons for this purpose. The 6 pdr (57
mm) Molins gun was intended for this role, but used only by Coastal
Command. The 47mm Class P gun was not ready until after the war.
Rob

RR alos built a competitor to the Vickers 40mm which flew and was
tested, however it had a 12 round magazine and was not overly
reliable, it never went into full scale production as RR had better
things to do than design guns. However if the vickers gun had failed
it would have gone into service I am sure.

There was an official propsal two put two Vickers 40mm in the nose of
a beaufighter, and also to use a 40mm - maybe the same gun? as an air
to air weapon in some a/c.

The Molins gun was the standard army ^pdr anti tank gun, although with
a different feed I believe. It was also used by the RN on the Fairmile
'dog' boats amongst others.

Guy

[Rob Arndt]

Post by guy

Post by Rob Arndt
The British fielded only one airborne gun in the anti-tank role: the
Vickers Class S. This was designed around the naval 40x158R AA case,
with special armour-piercing loadings. As such, it was much less
powerful than the Army's 2 pdr anti-tank gun, but the attack speed of
the aircraft helped to provide a penetration quoted as 50-55mm (range
and striking angle not specified). This was a long-recoil gun which
was fed by a 15-round drum (a sixteenth round could be carried in the
chamber). A 30-round drum and a belt-fed version were developed but
not adopted. The same fate befell an interesting adaptation to use the
Littlejohn squeezebore shot. The AP projectiles fired were full-
calibre steel shot, without even a ballistic cap.
The British developed other weapons for this purpose. The 6 pdr (57
mm) Molins gun was intended for this role, but used only by Coastal
Command. The 47mm Class P gun was not ready until after the war.
Rob

RR alos built a competitor to the Vickers 40mm which flew and was
tested, however it had a 12 round magazine and was not overly
reliable, it never went into full scale production as RR had better
things to do than design guns. However if the vickers gun had failed
it would have gone into service I am sure.
There was an official propsal two put two Vickers 40mm in the �nose of
a beaufighter, and also to use a 40mm - maybe the same gun? as an air
to air weapon in some a/c.
The Molins gun was the standard army ^pdr anti tank gun, although with
a different feed I believe. It was also used by the RN on the Fairmile
'dog' boats amongst others.
Guy- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

RR 40BD (Naval Version of 40 BH Aircraft Cannon):
Loading Image...

RR also made an experimental .50 cal MG:
Loading Image...

Rob

[Moose47]

G'day Guy

R.A.F. serial numbers were indeed a single letter followed by four
digits. 'X' series was only used briefly in 1917-1918. It was
considered a logical follow on post-First World War commencing at
X1000. The final single letter/four digit series ended at W9999. The
first double letter/3 digit combo was used beginning in 1940 by the
newly formed Ministry of Aircraft Production. It was was AA100. The
series continued alphabetically i.e AB100, AD100 etc. So, X7704 is a
perfectly valid British serial number.

Cheers...Chris

[guy]

Post by Moose47
G'day Guy
R.A.F. serial numbers were indeed a single letter followed by four
digits.  'X' series was only used briefly in 1917-1918.  It was
considered a logical follow on post-First World War commencing at
X1000.  The final single letter/four digit series ended at W9999.  The
first double letter/3 digit combo was used beginning in 1940 by the
newly formed Ministry of Aircraft Production.  It was was AA100.  The
series continued alphabetically i.e AB100, AD100 etc.  So, X7704 is a
perfectly valid British serial number.
Cheers...Chris

Hi Chris, yes it is valid, but not for an RAF Beaufighter,
***however*** X7704 was an RAAF Beaufighter serial number!

Guy

[Rob Arndt]

Post by guy

Post by Moose47
G'day Guy
R.A.F. serial numbers were indeed a single letter followed by four
digits. �'X' series was only used briefly in 1917-1918. �It was
considered a logical follow on post-First World War commencing at
X1000. �The final single letter/four digit series ended at W9999. �The
first double letter/3 digit combo was used beginning in 1940 by the
newly formed Ministry of Aircraft Production. �It was was AA100. �The
series continued alphabetically i.e AB100, AD100 etc. �So, X7704 is a
perfectly valid British serial number.
Cheers...Chris

Hi Chris, yes it is valid, but not for an RAF Beaufighter,
***however*** X7704 was an RAAF Beaufighter serial number!
Guy

Sorry that I cannot locate anything on X7704. The only photo I have
with British 40mm guns is the Hurricame Mk.IID with twin 40mm Vickers
S-Guns under the wings:
Loading Image...

Hurricane Mk IID and IV: 40-mm

Another British fighter that saw extensive action during World War II
was the Hawker Hurricane. Later variants included the Hawker Mk IID
equipped with two 40-mm Vickers Type S cannons in addition to two
Browning 0.303-inch machine guns. The 40-mm cannons had originally
been developed during the 1930s as defensive armament for British
bombers. However, the gun was later adopted for use in anti-tank and
ground attack missions. The gun could carry either armor piercing
rounds for anti-tank attacks or high explosive rounds for other ground
attack duties. Weighing 295 lb (135 kg), the Vickers S gun could fire
its magazine of 15 rounds, weighing 2.5 lb (1.13 kg) each, at a rate
of 100 rounds per minute. The 40-mm cannons were carried one under
each of the Hurricane's wing.

The Hurricane IID first saw action in North Africa beginning in
mid-1942. The type achieved considerable success by striking 144 enemy
tanks, of which 47 were destroyed, as well as 200 other vehicles.
Losses to ground fire were severe given the Hurricane's lack of armor
protection, but the type also saw success in southeast Asia using high
explosive shells to attack Japanese transportation routes. An improved
model was the Hurricane Mk IV carrying the same armament as the Mk IID
but also capable of carrying two 500-lb bombs or up to eight rockets.

Rob

[guy]

Post by Rob Arndt

Post by guy

Post by Moose47
G'day Guy
R.A.F. serial numbers were indeed a single letter followed by four
digits. 'X' series was only used briefly in 1917-1918. It was
considered a logical follow on post-First World War commencing at
X1000. The final single letter/four digit series ended at W9999. The
first double letter/3 digit combo was used beginning in 1940 by the
newly formed Ministry of Aircraft Production. It was was AA100. The
series continued alphabetically i.e AB100, AD100 etc. So, X7704 is a
perfectly valid British serial number.
Cheers...Chris

Hi Chris, yes it is valid, but not for an RAF Beaufighter,
***however*** X7704 was an RAAF Beaufighter serial number!
Guy

Sorry that I cannot locate anything on X7704. The only photo I have
with British 40mm guns is the Hurricame Mk.IID with twin 40mm Vickers
S-Guns under the wings:http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/weapons/guns/hurricane.jpg
Hurricane Mk IID and IV: 40-mm
Another British fighter that saw extensive action during World War II
was the Hawker Hurricane. Later variants included the Hawker Mk IID
equipped with two 40-mm Vickers Type S cannons in addition to two
Browning 0.303-inch machine guns. The 40-mm cannons had originally
been developed during the 1930s as defensive armament for British
bombers. However, the gun was later adopted for use in anti-tank and
ground attack missions. The gun could carry either armor piercing
rounds for anti-tank attacks or high explosive rounds for other ground
attack duties. Weighing 295 lb (135 kg), the Vickers S gun could fire
its magazine of 15 rounds, weighing 2.5 lb (1.13 kg) each, at a rate
of 100 rounds per minute. The 40-mm cannons were carried one under
each of the Hurricane's wing.
The Hurricane IID first saw action in North Africa beginning in
mid-1942. The type achieved considerable success by striking 144 enemy
tanks, of which 47 were destroyed, as well as 200 other vehicles.
Losses to ground fire were severe given the Hurricane's lack of armor
protection, but the type also saw success in southeast Asia using high
explosive shells to attack Japanese transportation routes. An improved
model was the Hurricane Mk IV carrying the same armament as the Mk IID
but also capable of carrying two 500-lb bombs or up to eight rockets.
Rob- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Actually the Mk IV did not ***always*** carry the 40mm, but it was an
option - any combination of up to two 40mm, two 500lb bombs, eight
60/25 lb rockets, 45 gal drop tanks. (90gal drop tanks could not be
combined with any other weapon). Firing a single 40mm giun was not
very accurate however!.

Note also that as the Hurri IV had much more armour it was nothing
like as popular with the pilots to fly. It was built on the same line
as the Hurri IIC in about a 1:10 raqtio IIRC.

The other advantage any gun armed aeroplane had against armour was
that while an equivalent A/T gun generally had to face the thickest
frontal armour of an opposing tank, the Hurri IID (or equivalent)
could attack from the rear, facing the much thinner armour there.
(But once you had rockets the gun was pretty much redundant)

Guy

Guy

[Moose47]

Guy

One block of Royal Air Force serial numbers for the Bristol 156
Beaufighter Mk. I, Mk. VIC and Mk. VIF was X7540 to X8269. This block
includes X7704.

British-built aircraft serving with Commonwealth countries i.e.
R.C.A.F. - Canada, R.N.Z.A.F. - New Zealand, R.A.A.F. - Australia or
S.A.A.F. - South Africa, retained their original British serial
numbers.

Beaufighters built in England and sent to Australia were re-serialed
A19-1 to A19-218. The Beaufighter Mk. 21's built in Australia by the
Department of Aircraft Production were serialed A8-1 to A8-365.

[guy]

Post by Moose47
Guy
One block of Royal Air Force serial numbers for the Bristol 156
Beaufighter Mk. I, Mk. VIC and Mk. VIF was X7540 to X8269.  This block
includes X7704.
British-built aircraft serving with Commonwealth countries i.e.
R.C.A.F.  - Canada, R.N.Z.A.F. - New Zealand, R.A.A.F. -  Australia or
S.A.A.F. - South Africa, retained their original British serial
numbers.
Beaufighters built in England and sent to Australia were re-serialed
A19-1 to A19-218.  The Beaufighter Mk. 21's built in Australia by the
Department of Aircraft Production were serialed A8-1 to A8-365.

Hmmm, thanks for that Chris, the mystery deepens! So was X7704 a
British or an Aussie Beaufighter?
According to the book she was an RAF Mk I and my previous Google
(which implied she was the last Aussie Beaufighter) has now been
obliterated by our posts to this group!

guy

[Rob Arndt]

Post by guy

Post by Moose47
Guy
One block of Royal Air Force serial numbers for the Bristol 156
Beaufighter Mk. I, Mk. VIC and Mk. VIF was X7540 to X8269. �This block
includes X7704.
British-built aircraft serving with Commonwealth countries i.e.
R.C.A.F. �- Canada, R.N.Z.A.F. - New Zealand, R.A.A.F. - �Australia or
S.A.A.F. - South Africa, retained their original British serial
numbers.
Beaufighters built in England and sent to Australia were re-serialed
A19-1 to A19-218. �The Beaufighter Mk. 21's built in Australia by the
Department of Aircraft Production were serialed A8-1 to A8-365.

Hmmm, thanks for that Chris, the mystery deepens! So was X7704 a
British or an Aussie Beaufighter?
According to the book she was an RAF Mk I and my previous Google
(which implied she was the last Aussie Beaufighter) has now been
obliterated by our posts to this group!
guy

I questioned this from the beginning b/c that serial X7704 is RAF
Beaufighter, not RAAF. I was concentrating on finding a photo based on
the 40mm Bofors cannon armament instead. I think there is a photo on
one of the aviation forums I raid, so I will have to systematically go
through hundreds of threads to find where that would fall under-
British a/c, armament, WW2 armament, Beaufighter, Beaufighter vs X-
German a/c, etc... a lot to search for, but I have found more rare
types before as you well know :)

I'll keep looking 8-)

Rob

Rob

[guy]

Post by Rob Arndt

Post by guy

Post by Moose47
Guy
One block of Royal Air Force serial numbers for the Bristol 156
Beaufighter Mk. I, Mk. VIC and Mk. VIF was X7540 to X8269. This block
includes X7704.
British-built aircraft serving with Commonwealth countries i.e.
R.C.A.F. - Canada, R.N.Z.A.F. - New Zealand, R.A.A.F. - Australia or
S.A.A.F. - South Africa, retained their original British serial
numbers.
Beaufighters built in England and sent to Australia were re-serialed
A19-1 to A19-218. The Beaufighter Mk. 21's built in Australia by the
Department of Aircraft Production were serialed A8-1 to A8-365.

Hmmm, thanks for that Chris, the mystery deepens! So was X7704 a
British or an Aussie Beaufighter?
According to the book she was an RAF Mk I and my previous Google
(which implied she was the last Aussie Beaufighter) has now been
obliterated by our posts to this group!
guy

I questioned this from the beginning b/c that serial X7704 is RAF
Beaufighter, not RAAF. I was concentrating on finding a photo based on
the 40mm Bofors cannon armament instead. I think there is a photo on
one of the aviation forums I raid, so I will have to systematically go
through hundreds of threads to find where that would fall under-
British a/c, armament, WW2 armament, Beaufighter, Beaufighter vs X-
German a/c, etc... a lot to search for, but I have found more rare
types before as you well know :)
I'll keep looking 8-)
Rob
Rob- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Thanks Rob, If anyone can, you can!

cheers

Guy

[Rob Arndt]

Post by guy
Re-reading 'The Armed Rovers' by Roy C. Nesbitt he refers to an field
mod by 252 Squadron on Beaufghter I X7704, where the 4x20mm Cannon
were replaced by a 40mm Bofors (***not*** a Vickers 40mm).
This was test flown by a Canadian Stanley J Kernaghan (probably a
Flight Sargeant), and the trials proved succesfull, the intention
being to use this in the anti tank role. However the aircraft was
written off by another pilot during a follow up test flight.
The date would be around September/october 1942.
So - does anyone have any more info on this Beaufighter - I am
suspicious of the actual serial as this is also the serial of one of
the last RAAF Beaufighters.
Also, was an AP round developed for the Bofors?
Guy

You could contact this site:
http://www.cnapg.org/bristolbeaufighter.htm

Rob

[guy]

Post by guy
Re-reading 'The Armed Rovers' by Roy C. Nesbitt he refers to an field
mod by 252 Squadron on Beaufghter I X7704, where the 4x20mm Cannon
were replaced by a 40mm Bofors (***not*** a Vickers 40mm).
This was test flown by a Canadian Stanley J Kernaghan (probably a
Flight Sargeant), and the trials proved succesfull, the intention
being to use this in the anti tank role. However the aircraft was
written off by another pilot during a follow up test flight.
The date would be around September/october 1942.
So - does anyone have any more info on this Beaufighter - I am
suspicious of the actual serial as this is also the serial of one of
the last RAAF Beaufighters.
Also, was an AP round developed for the Bofors?
Guy

You could contact this site:http://www.cnapg.org/bristolbeaufighter.htm
Rob- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Thanks Rob, actually that is where I found out that X7704 was an
aussie Beufighter:-)
Also the serian is not the normal 2 letter/3digit used by the RAF,
which suggests to me a typo.

Guy