Discussion:
Paris Air Show: Video Of The First Aerobatic Flight Demo Of The F-35:
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Jonathan
2017-06-20 00:09:37 UTC
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It can dogfight~



Here’s The Video Of The First Aerobatic Flight Demo Of The F-35:
Does It Showcase Exceptional Maneuverability Or Quite
The Opposite?



Set against a brilliant French sky with puffy cumulus clouds
Lockheed Martin’s star test pilot Billie Flynn thrilled the crowd
at Le Bourget Airport outside Paris, France today as he
wheeled and tumbled his F-35A Lightning II through an
aerobatic demonstration some critics claimed was nearly
impossible.

The performance included low speed, high angle of attack
maneuvers, tight turning, numerous rolls and maximum
performance climbs that would silence the critics who
said the F-35 could not dogfight and “crush years
of misinformation about what this aircraft is capable
of doing“.

While the F-35’s advanced sensor and integration avionics
are designed to win the fight long before the “merge” of
combat into visual dogfighting range, this demonstration
aimed to show the controversial Joint Strike Fighter
can hold its own in a knife-fight with the Sukhois,
MiGs, Chengdus, Shenyangs and other likely
adversaries.



https://theaviationist.com/2017/06/19/heres-the-video-of-the-first-aerobatic-flight-demo-of-the-f-35-does-it-showcase-exceptional-maneuverability-or-quite-the-opposite/
Zinger
2017-06-20 06:12:32 UTC
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Post by Jonathan
It can dogfight~
Does It Showcase Exceptional Maneuverability Or Quite
The Opposite?
Set against a brilliant French sky with puffy cumulus clouds
Lockheed Martin’s star test pilot Billie Flynn thrilled the crowd
at Le Bourget Airport outside Paris, France today as he
wheeled and tumbled his F-35A Lightning II through an
aerobatic demonstration some critics claimed was nearly
impossible.
The performance included low speed, high angle of attack
maneuvers, tight turning, numerous rolls and maximum
performance climbs that would silence the critics who
said the F-35 could not dogfight and “crush years
of misinformation about what this aircraft is capable
of doing“.
While the F-35’s advanced sensor and integration avionics
are designed to win the fight long before the “merge” of
combat into visual dogfighting range, this demonstration
aimed to show the controversial Joint Strike Fighter
can hold its own in a knife-fight with the Sukhois,
MiGs, Chengdus, Shenyangs and other likely
adversaries.
Not an impressive flight at all. Standard long runway takeoff..standard
long runway landing. A bunch of standard unimpressive aerial maneuvers.
The Russians have put on a much better show with their last aircraft
debut. Would a bunch of $Millions Russian aircraft, possibly shoot down
our $Billion Dollar Boondoggle? I think we need to haul some of our very
old Airframe Engineers out of retirement and actually design a winner.
Qatar is Purchasing F15's from America. I guess that Cadillac F35 isn't
up to their very expensive standards. Its a good thing the F18 Hornet
shot down Syria's SU22. If that had been an F35, things might not have
gone so well.
Post by Jonathan
https://theaviationist.com/2017/06/19/heres-the-video-of-the-first-aerobatic-flight-demo-of-the-f-35-does-it-showcase-exceptional-maneuverability-or-quite-the-opposite/
--
Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to
the security of a free State, the right of the people
to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed
Jonathan
2017-06-20 22:46:55 UTC
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Post by Zinger
Post by Jonathan
It can dogfight~
Does It Showcase Exceptional Maneuverability Or Quite
The Opposite?
Set against a brilliant French sky with puffy cumulus clouds
Lockheed Martin’s star test pilot Billie Flynn thrilled the crowd
at Le Bourget Airport outside Paris, France today as he
wheeled and tumbled his F-35A Lightning II through an
aerobatic demonstration some critics claimed was nearly
impossible.
The performance included low speed, high angle of attack
maneuvers, tight turning, numerous rolls and maximum
performance climbs that would silence the critics who
said the F-35 could not dogfight and “crush years
of misinformation about what this aircraft is capable
of doing“.
While the F-35’s advanced sensor and integration avionics
are designed to win the fight long before the “merge” of
combat into visual dogfighting range, this demonstration
aimed to show the controversial Joint Strike Fighter
can hold its own in a knife-fight with the Sukhois,
MiGs, Chengdus, Shenyangs and other likely
adversaries.
Not an impressive flight at all. Standard long runway takeoff
Bollocks, by my count it took 11 seconds, just watched
a twin engine Mig-28 video and it took 14 seconds.
One of the fastest jets in the world, the F-22 just
watched it take 10 seconds to get the wheels off
the ground.
Post by Zinger
..standard
long runway landing.
What does that have to do with anything?
Post by Zinger
A bunch of standard unimpressive aerial maneuvers.
The Russians have put on a much better show with their last aircraft
debut. Would a bunch of $Millions Russian aircraft, possibly shoot down
our $Billion Dollar Boondoggle?
Since the last time a US jet was in a dogfight was 36 years
ago, who cares about dogfighting. A Russian jet won't even
know the F-35 is on it's tail until it's too late.
Post by Zinger
I think we need to haul some of our very
old Airframe Engineers out of retirement and actually design a winner.
Qatar is Purchasing F15's from America. I guess that Cadillac F35 isn't
up to their very expensive standards.
It's US policy for some time that Israel should be
the only Middle East nation with 5th gen fighters.
We're not selling the F-35 to any Arab states.
Post by Zinger
Its a good thing the F18 Hornet
shot down Syria's SU22. If that had been an F35, things might not have
gone so well.
That's just ridiculous, in exercises they clean up against
any 4th gen jet.

Looks like the F-35 achieved an impressive 20:1 kill ratio
at Nellis Air Force Base’s Red Flag 17-1
https://theaviationist.com/2017/02/28/red-flag-confirmed-f-35-dominance-with-a-201-kill-ratio-u-s-air-force-says/
Post by Zinger
Post by Jonathan
https://theaviationist.com/2017/06/19/heres-the-video-of-the-first-aerobatic-flight-demo-of-the-f-35-does-it-showcase-exceptional-maneuverability-or-quite-the-opposite/
Jonathan
2017-06-20 22:50:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jonathan
Post by Zinger
Post by Jonathan
It can dogfight~
Does It Showcase Exceptional Maneuverability Or Quite
The Opposite?
Set against a brilliant French sky with puffy cumulus clouds
Lockheed Martin’s star test pilot Billie Flynn thrilled the crowd
at Le Bourget Airport outside Paris, France today as he
wheeled and tumbled his F-35A Lightning II through an
aerobatic demonstration some critics claimed was nearly
impossible.
The performance included low speed, high angle of attack
maneuvers, tight turning, numerous rolls and maximum
performance climbs that would silence the critics who
said the F-35 could not dogfight and “crush years
of misinformation about what this aircraft is capable
of doing“.
While the F-35’s advanced sensor and integration avionics
are designed to win the fight long before the “merge” of
combat into visual dogfighting range, this demonstration
aimed to show the controversial Joint Strike Fighter
can hold its own in a knife-fight with the Sukhois,
MiGs, Chengdus, Shenyangs and other likely
adversaries.
Not an impressive flight at all. Standard long runway takeoff
Bollocks, by my count it took 11 seconds, just watched
a twin engine Mig-28 video and it took 14 seconds.
One of the fastest jets in the world, the F-22 just
watched it take 10 seconds to get the wheels off
the ground.
Mig 29~
Post by Jonathan
Post by Zinger
..standard long runway landing.
What does that have to do with anything?
Post by Zinger
A bunch of standard unimpressive aerial maneuvers.
The Russians have put on a much better show with their last aircraft
debut. Would a bunch of $Millions Russian aircraft, possibly shoot
down our $Billion Dollar Boondoggle?
Since the last time a US jet was in a dogfight was 36 years
ago, who cares about dogfighting. A Russian jet won't even
know the F-35 is on it's tail until it's too late.
Post by Zinger
I think we need to haul some of our very old Airframe Engineers out of
retirement and actually design a winner.
Qatar is Purchasing F15's from America. I guess that Cadillac F35
isn't up to their very expensive standards.
It's US policy for some time that Israel should be
the only Middle East nation with 5th gen fighters.
We're not selling the F-35 to any Arab states.
Post by Zinger
Its a good thing the F18 Hornet shot down Syria's SU22. If that had
been an F35, things might not have gone so well.
That's just ridiculous, in exercises they clean up against
any 4th gen jet.
Looks like the F-35 achieved an impressive 20:1 kill ratio
at Nellis Air Force Base’s Red Flag 17-1
https://theaviationist.com/2017/02/28/red-flag-confirmed-f-35-dominance-with-a-201-kill-ratio-u-s-air-force-says/
Post by Zinger
Post by Jonathan
https://theaviationist.com/2017/06/19/heres-the-video-of-the-first-aerobatic-flight-demo-of-the-f-35-does-it-showcase-exceptional-maneuverability-or-quite-the-opposite/
PaxPerPoten
2017-06-21 05:33:22 UTC
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On 6/20/2017 5:50 PM, Jonathan wrote:
the ground.
Post by Jonathan
Mig 29~
Maybe you need to look at the competition.

http://tinyurl.com/y998zwmt

http://tinyurl.com/yblxulyb

http://tinyurl.com/y7w8tk6p
--
It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard
the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all
ages who mean to govern well, but *They mean to govern*. They promise to
be good masters, *but they mean to be masters*. Daniel Webster
Jonathan
2017-06-21 23:15:07 UTC
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Post by Jonathan
the ground.
Post by Jonathan
Mig 29~
Maybe you need to look at the competition.
http://tinyurl.com/y998zwmt
http://tinyurl.com/yblxulyb
http://tinyurl.com/y7w8tk6p
The T-50? Competition? In about five
years the Russians will start building
around...two per year (maybe) and they've
only ordered a total of 12 to be built(maybe).

By all appearances they're only going to build the
two prototypes and maybe down the road make a
decision on whether to build ten more production
units. That's not competition, it's a pipe dream.

And from what I've read they have far more
teething problems then the F-35.




In December 2014, the Russian Air Force planned to receive
55 fighters by 2020.[36] Yuri Borisov, Russia's deputy
minister of defence for armaments stated in 2015 that
the Air Force will slow PAK FA production and reduce
its initial order to 12 fighters
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_PAK_FA




Russia’s Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA fifth-generation stealth fighter
may enter service in 2018, but the Kremlin is not in a
particular hurry to buy the expensive new jet in large
numbers. Meanwhile, Russia is continuing to develop new e
ngines for the T-50, which is currently powered by
interim Saturn AL-41F1 afterburning turbofans.

"We are not in a hurry," Russian deputy defense minister
Yuri Borisov told the TASS News agency. "Most likely,
this will be already the next state armament program,
i.e. 2018-2025."
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-fearsome-new-stealth-fighter-will-enter-service-2018-19467
Zinger
2017-06-21 05:25:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jonathan
Post by Zinger
Post by Jonathan
It can dogfight~
Does It Showcase Exceptional Maneuverability Or Quite
The Opposite?
Set against a brilliant French sky with puffy cumulus clouds
Lockheed Martin’s star test pilot Billie Flynn thrilled the crowd
at Le Bourget Airport outside Paris, France today as he
wheeled and tumbled his F-35A Lightning II through an
aerobatic demonstration some critics claimed was nearly
impossible.
The performance included low speed, high angle of attack
maneuvers, tight turning, numerous rolls and maximum
performance climbs that would silence the critics who
said the F-35 could not dogfight and “crush years
of misinformation about what this aircraft is capable
of doing“.
While the F-35’s advanced sensor and integration avionics
are designed to win the fight long before the “merge” of
combat into visual dogfighting range, this demonstration
aimed to show the controversial Joint Strike Fighter
can hold its own in a knife-fight with the Sukhois,
MiGs, Chengdus, Shenyangs and other likely
adversaries.
Not an impressive flight at all. Standard long runway takeoff
Bollocks, by my count it took 11 seconds, just watched
a twin engine Mig-28 video and it took 14 seconds.
One of the fastest jets in the world, the F-22 just
watched it take 10 seconds to get the wheels off
the ground.
Smoke that dope if you got it. The original design parameters were for a
grasshopper take off and landing.
Post by Jonathan
Post by Zinger
..standard long runway landing.
What does that have to do with anything?
Fast out and fast in to clear runway for other combat flights
and to rearm for return to combat. If you don't..Your adversary
will redesign your runway for you.
Post by Jonathan
Post by Zinger
A bunch of standard unimpressive aerial maneuvers.
The Russians have put on a much better show with their last aircraft
debut. Would a bunch of $Millions Russian aircraft, possibly shoot
down our $Billion Dollar Boondoggle?
Since the last time a US jet was in a dogfight was 36 years
ago, who cares about dogfighting. A Russian jet won't even
know the F-35 is on it's tail until it's too late.
Don't underestimate the Russians ever! They have been top combat plane
designers for many decades.
Post by Jonathan
Post by Zinger
I think we need to haul some of our very old Airframe Engineers out of
retirement and actually design a winner.
Qatar is Purchasing F15's from America. I guess that Cadillac F35
isn't up to their very expensive standards.
It's US policy for some time that Israel should be
the only Middle East nation with 5th gen fighters.
We're not selling the F-35 to any Arab states.
That is what you think. We are not selling them to Israel either. We
give them the money and they give it back for F35's
Post by Jonathan
Post by Zinger
Its a good thing the F18 Hornet shot down Syria's SU22. If that had
been an F35, things might not have gone so well.
That's just ridiculous, in exercises they clean up against
any 4th gen jet.
Like I said..Smoke that dope and everything looks rosy
Post by Jonathan
Looks like the F-35 achieved an impressive 20:1 kill ratio
at Nellis Air Force Base’s Red Flag 17-1
https://theaviationist.com/2017/02/28/red-flag-confirmed-f-35-dominance-with-a-201-kill-ratio-u-s-air-force-says/
That is Hype..Put it up against a top Israeli or German Pilot in a top
of the line fighter and things may not look so rosy.
Post by Jonathan
Post by Zinger
Post by Jonathan
https://theaviationist.com/2017/06/19/heres-the-video-of-the-first-aerobatic-flight-demo-of-the-f-35-does-it-showcase-exceptional-maneuverability-or-quite-the-opposite/
--
Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to
the security of a free State, the right of the people
to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed
bbrought
2017-06-20 09:49:55 UTC
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Post by Jonathan
While the F-35’s advanced sensor and integration avionics
are designed to win the fight long before the “merge” of
combat into visual dogfighting range, this demonstration
aimed to show the controversial Joint Strike Fighter
can hold its own in a knife-fight with the Sukhois,
MiGs, Chengdus, Shenyangs and other likely
adversaries.
Hmmm, it is interesting that "Jonathan" only quoted part of the article that he linked to. Here is the part that he conveniently left out:

*******
Honestly speaking the new PAS 2017 routine seems to be more dynamic than expected. But in terms of instantaneous and sustained turn rates the F-35 does not seem to match the performance of the famous super-maneuverable Sukhois, Eurofighter Typhoon, Gripen or Rafale (to name but few).

Still, the unique features of the JSF are its stealth design, sensor fusion capabilities and unmatched SA (Situational Awareness): that is to say all the ingredients for success in modern air-to-ground operations. Comparing the F-35 to an F-22, Typhoon or even F/A-18 in terms of energy-maneuverability is probably wrong and misleading.
*******

Having looked at the video, I have to agree that it was disappointing, especially after having witnessed similar displays (in person) by the modern Sukhois and the F-22, I expected something a bit more impressive than this.
PaxPerPoten
2017-06-21 04:59:21 UTC
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Post by Jonathan
It can dogfight~
Does It Showcase Exceptional Maneuverability Or Quite
The Opposite?
Set against a brilliant French sky with puffy cumulus clouds
Lockheed Martin’s star test pilot Billie Flynn thrilled the crowd
at Le Bourget Airport outside Paris, France today as he
wheeled and tumbled his F-35A Lightning II through an
aerobatic demonstration some critics claimed was nearly
impossible.
I wonder how it would stack up against an F15 Strike Eagle?
Or a F18 Super Hornet?
Post by Jonathan
The performance included low speed, high angle of attack
maneuvers, tight turning, numerous rolls and maximum
performance climbs that would silence the critics who
said the F-35 could not dogfight and “crush years
of misinformation about what this aircraft is capable
of doing“.
The last years Russian plane was much better.
Post by Jonathan
While the F-35’s advanced sensor and integration avionics
are designed to win the fight long before the “merge” of
combat into visual dogfighting range, this demonstration
aimed to show the controversial Joint Strike Fighter
can hold its own in a knife-fight with the Sukhois,
MiGs, Chengdus, Shenyangs and other likely
adversaries.
https://theaviationist.com/2017/06/19/heres-the-video-of-the-first-aerobatic-flight-demo-of-the-f-35-does-it-showcase-exceptional-maneuverability-or-quite-the-opposite/
--
It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard
the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all
ages who mean to govern well, but *They mean to govern*. They promise to
be good masters, *but they mean to be masters*. Daniel Webster
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