Post by Paul F Austin
It appears this is right up there with the Throttle Control on the
Toyotas. the saw the Chrysler throttle and ordered the same
you don't get with the parts is the Software to go with it.
Now the problem. In a Chrysler with keyless ignition, there is a 3
second delay before the engine shuts off. Not a real problem by itself.
Now, during those three seconds, imagine if the throttle locked wide
open. Hence the Toyota problem. Chrysler has a safety circuit that
overrides the throttle circuit when you apply the brakes.
that out. 3 seconds of hard acceleration. Not my idea of an
drive if it's not done on purpose. 3 seconds means the difference
between 75 mph and 115 mph.
Now, what about the keyed ignition systems. Chrysler, you just apply the
brakes which disengages the throttle until you come to a stop. Then
without releasing the brake, turn the ignition off. No foul.
Call a tow
On some of the Toyotas without the keyless ignition, when the throttle
locked wide open, you had to stand on the brakes and slow the vehicle
down that way. Terror for most drivers and fatalities for some. Toyota
installed an improper control in their electronic throttle.
Software makes all the difference. I have two different
controllers. One malfunctions and locks wide open. Not a
on something with much better brakes than power. The other has that
circuit built in to disable the motor when there is a problem.
Both systems have the brake lockout that Toyota left out of
I imagine this may have been a software problem. And from the Looks of
things, Airbus has a problem in that area.
Nice summary of what didn't happen, Daryl. Try to keep up.
Analysis of the Toyota "throttle problems" focused in the end on
the right foot of the driver. To the great disappointment of the
ambulance-chaser bar, the NHTSA found that "peddle
misapplication" was the likely cause of Priuses Flying Down the
Highway. NHTSA subcontracted much of the testing and analysis to
1. "NASA did not find that the ETC (Electronic Throttle Control)
electronics are a likely cause of large throttle openings in
Toyota vehicles as descrived in consumers' complaints to NHTSA"
2. "NASA found that many safety features are designed into the
ETC system...NASA found no flaws in the software code controling
the Toyota ETC system that would cause UA (Unintended
3. "NASA also found that electromagnetic compatibility (EMC)
testing...did not produce an open throttle"
4. "NASA found no evidence that any failures of the ETC system
had an effect on the performance of the braking system."
According to that report, it never happened. Yet it did. And the
most likely reason was put out by Chrysler that uses the same
control units except for different software.
It's been duplicated by other sources. Toyota claims it was a
mechanical problem with sticking throttle pedals. Fine. But if
the control for disengaging the electronic throttle were linked
to the brakes, no big thing. They left that part out.
As long as they deny that this is a problem, I don't suggest
anyone buy any car with that control system.
If it had the brake override in the system, people would have
been able to bring the vehicle to a stop even IF the throttle was
stuck (shims are available to cure the stuck throttle problem).
According to Toyota, only 2 models were affected yet there were
quite a few recalled to receive these shims.
Mechanical things stick. That's pretty well a fact of life. Next
time they throttle sticks in a Toyota, the same thing will
happen. You will have a runaway vehicle until you can get it shut
down or braked to a full stop and shut it down by excessive
braking. Until you shut it down, the engine will be under full
Are you saying Toyota hasn't addressed this little design flaw?
It's a huge flaw. When is started using cheap electrics, they had
this flaw. Today, the same companies have the brake override
built in. If a friggin Electric Bike can address this problem
does that make them smarter and safer than a Toyota?
Here is the real fix.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- There's one safety feature that Toyota
could have had in its cars for years that would have stopped
many, perhaps even most, cases of unintended acceleration -- it's
called 'brake override.'
Toyota has been saying for several weeks that it will add the
feature to all of its new cars, and singled out the technology
again at a press conference in Japan Wednesday.
Brake override -- or "smart throttle" -- is a software algorithm
that acts as a tie-breaker between the gas pedal and the brake
pedal. Once you step on the brakes, even if the gas pedal is
pressed down at the same time, the car assumes you no longer want
Now you can buy a Toyota with the brake override. Wow, and to
think the million or so Toyotas running around without it.
From experience, the likely cause of this runaway condition
would have been moisture in the control unit. At that point, two
things is going to happen. It stops working (goes dead) or it
locks wide open. I have to seal all my controllers to use them
in the weather otherwise, two of these things may happen.
Now, don't have a brake override and you definately have a
problem some of the time. And that was the real problem, not the
fact the throttle stuck, the floor mat trapped the pedal. It was
that there was NO Brake override system.
NASA can test good units till they are blue in the face and not
get one to malfunction. Introduce moisture and one of those two
malfunctions will happen. I see it all the time.
The fix for both is to dry out the controller. Time will do
that. It may be a few minutes or a few hours. But drying it out
will normally correct the problem.
Even when it stops working completely. The Electronics today are
pretty robust. But until it's completely dried out, you are
going to have one of those two conditions.
Funny, by the time the tow truck shows up, it will probably be
okay. The sun beating down on the hood of the car dries out just
about anything under the hood in a very short order if you just
I have two bikes. One has the control unit encased in a weather
proof box while the other doesn't. When it rains, the one that
is encased could care less and operates just fine. The other
one, don't turn it on in the rain because it's going to go full
power or not work at all.
When that happens, turn the power off to the controller. Wait
until the sun shines a bit and then power it up. When it no
longer goes to full power or it starts to operate normally then
everything is fine. I have been meaning to break out the sealer
on it for quite some time but just haven't found the time. That
fixes it for good.
But if it happens (Sometimes it rains on the way home) just hit
the brakes and the brake override disengages the controller no
matter what. Get it stopped and kill the power. No big deal.
I can bet that moisture had a lot to do with all this plus the
lack of a decent override.
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