Discussion:
One view of Pearl Harbor & Nimitz & WWII
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a425couple
2019-11-03 19:21:01 UTC
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from a Facebook Vietnam group:
James L. Holly
October 25 at 5:41 PM
I have a Master’s Degree in History and I did not know this.

John Guy writes: "What God did at Pearl Harbor that day is interesting
and I never knew this little bit of history.

Tour boats ferry people out to the USS Arizona Memorial in Hawaii every
thirty minutes. We just missed a ferry and had to wait thirty minutes. I
went into a small gift shop to kill time.

In the gift shop, I purchased a small book entitled, "Reflections on
Pearl Harbor" by Admiral Chester Nimitz.

Sunday, December 7th, 1941— Admiral Chester Nimitz was attending a
concert in Washington, DC. He was paged and told there was a phone call
for him. When he answered the phone, it was President Franklin Delano
Roosevelt on the phone.

He told Admiral Nimitz that he (Nimitz) would now be the Commander of
the Pacific Fleet. Admiral Nimitz flew to Hawaii to assume command of
the Pacific Fleet. He landed at Pearl Harbor on Christmas Eve, 1941.
There was such a spirit of despair, dejection and defeat--you would have
thought the Japanese had already won the war.

On Christmas Day, 1941, Adm. Nimitz was given a boat tour of the
destruction wrought on Pearl Harbor by the Japanese. Big sunken
battleships and navy vessels cluttered the waters everywhere you looked.
As the tour boat returned to dock, the young helmsman of the boat asked,
"Well Admiral, what do you think after seeing all this destruction?"

Admiral Nimitz's reply shocked everyone within the sound of his voice.
Admiral Nimitz said, "The Japanese made three of the biggest mistakes an
attack force could ever make, or God was taking care of America. Which
do you think it was?"

Shocked and surprised, the young helmsman asked, "What do mean by saying
the Japanese made the three biggest mistakes an attack force ever made?

Nimitz explained:

Mistake number one:

The Japanese attacked on Sunday morning. Nine out of every ten crewmen
of those ships were ashore on leave. If those same ships had been lured
to sea and been sunk--we would have lost 38,000 men instead of 3,800.

Mistake number two:

When the Japanese saw all those battleships lined in a row, they got so
carried away sinking those battleships, they never once bombed our dry
docks opposite those ships. If they had destroyed our dry docks, we
would have had to tow every one of those ships to America to be
repaired. As it is now, the ships are in shallow water and can be
raised. One tug can pull them over to the dry docks, and we can have
them repaired and at sea by the time we could have towed them to
America. And I already have crews ashore anxious to man those ships.

Mistake number three: Every drop of fuel in the Pacific theater of war
is in top of the ground storage tanks five miles away over that hill.
One attack plane could have strafed those tanks and destroyed our fuel
supply.

That's why I say the Japanese made three of the biggest mistakes an
attack force could make or, God was taking care of America.

I've never forgotten what I read in that little book. It is still an
inspiration as I reflect upon it. In jest, I might suggest that because
Admiral Nimitz was a Texan, born and raised in Fredericksburg, Texas --
he was a born optimist.

But any way you look at it -- Admiral Nimitz was able to see a silver
lining in a situation and circumstance where everyone else saw only
despair and defeatism.

President Roosevelt had chosen the right man for the right job. We
desperately needed a leader that could see silver lining in the midst of
the clouds of dejection, despair and defeat.

There is a reason that our national motto is, IN GOD WE TRUST.

Why have we forgotten? PRAY FOR OUR COUNTRY! IN GOD WE TRUST."

also
James Maedgen They made an additional mistake, our aircraft carriers
were at sea. Carriers, the pilots that flew from them, and the US
Marines were the deciding factors in the Pacific theatre .
S.F!
Jim
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2019-11-03 19:39:20 UTC
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★ PRIOR CONTENT SQUISHED BY VIRTUAL SHADOW BOREDOM PROTECTION ★

Oh my, well...now that I'm awake again, I will just say that I love using that AdBlocker Plus on all my infamous browsers.
It filters the content in such a way that internet surfing has become, one again, like cruising along a lonesome stretch of interstate on my mansome Harley.

Any questions about that?
%
2019-11-03 19:49:15 UTC
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Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
★ PRIOR CONTENT SQUISHED BY VIRTUAL SHADOW BOREDOM PROTECTION ★
Oh my, well...now that I'm awake again, I will just say that I love
using that AdBlocker Plus on all my infamous browsers.
It filters the content in such a way that internet surfing has become,
one again, like cruising along a lonesome stretch of interstate on my
mansome Harley.
Any questions about that?
ignored
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2019-11-03 22:57:28 UTC
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Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
★ PRIOR CONTENT SQUISHED BY VIRTUAL SHADOW BOREDOM PROTECTION ★
Oh my, well...now that I'm awake again, I will just say that I love using that AdBlocker Plus on all my infamous browsers.
It filters the content in such a way that internet surfing has become, one again, like cruising along a lonesome stretch of interstate on my mansome Harley.
Any questions about that?
ignore me
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2019-11-05 17:16:52 UTC
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Post by %
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
★ PRIOR CONTENT SQUISHED BY VIRTUAL SHADOW BOREDOM PROTECTION ★
Oh my, well...now that I'm awake again, I will just say that I love using that AdBlocker Plus on all my infamous browsers.
It filters the content in such a way that internet surfing has become, one again, like cruising along a lonesome stretch of interstate on my mansome Harley.
Any questions about that?
ignored
Assworm sucks.
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2019-11-19 15:59:57 UTC
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Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
★ PRIOR CONTENT SQUISHED BY VIRTUAL SHADOW BOREDOM PROTECTION ★
Oh my, well...now that I'm awake again, I will just say that I love using that AdBlocker Plus on all my infamous browsers.
It filters the content in such a way that internet surfing has become, one again, like cruising along a lonesome stretch of interstate on my mansome Harley.
Any questions about that?
im ignored
Yes, always.
LOL
%
2019-11-19 16:08:38 UTC
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Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
★ PRIOR CONTENT SQUISHED BY VIRTUAL SHADOW BOREDOM PROTECTION ★
Oh my, well...now that I'm awake again, I will just say that I love
using that AdBlocker Plus on all my infamous browsers.
It filters the content in such a way that internet surfing has
become, one again, like cruising along a lonesome stretch of
interstate on my mansome Harley.
Any questions about that?
im ignored
Yes, always.
LOL
in order to insult someone first they have to care what you think
%
2019-11-19 17:07:33 UTC
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Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
★ PRIOR CONTENT SQUISHED BY VIRTUAL SHADOW BOREDOM PROTECTION ★
Oh my, well...now that I'm awake again, I will just say that I love
using that AdBlocker Plus on all my infamous browsers.
It filters the content in such a way that internet surfing has
become, one again, like cruising along a lonesome stretch of
interstate on my mansome Harley.
Any questions about that?
im ignored
Yes, always.
LOL
in order to insult someone first they have to care what you
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
think
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2019-11-19 18:13:46 UTC
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Post by %
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
★ PRIOR CONTENT SQUISHED BY VIRTUAL SHADOW BOREDOM PROTECTION ★
Oh my, well...now that I'm awake again, I will just say that I love using that AdBlocker Plus on all my infamous browsers.
It filters the content in such a way that internet surfing has become, one again, like cruising along a lonesome stretch of interstate on my mansome Harley.
Any questions about that?
im ignored
Yes, always.
LOL
in order to insult someone first they have to care what you
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
think
There's a dildo outside and his name is assworm.
%
2019-11-19 18:19:02 UTC
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Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by %
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
★ PRIOR CONTENT SQUISHED BY VIRTUAL SHADOW BOREDOM PROTECTION ★
Oh my, well...now that I'm awake again, I will just say that I love
using that AdBlocker Plus on all my infamous browsers.
It filters the content in such a way that internet surfing has
become, one again, like cruising along a lonesome stretch of
interstate on my mansome Harley.
Any questions about that?
im ignored
Yes, always.
LOL
in order to insult someone first they have to care what you
 >> think
There's a dildo outside and his name is assworm.
how can you be so fk'in stupid as to come back for more

in order to insult someone first they have to care what you think
%
2019-11-19 18:29:42 UTC
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Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by %
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
★ PRIOR CONTENT SQUISHED BY VIRTUAL SHADOW BOREDOM PROTECTION ★
Oh my, well...now that I'm awake again, I will just say that I love
using that AdBlocker Plus on all my infamous browsers.
It filters the content in such a way that internet surfing has
become, one again, like cruising along a lonesome stretch of
interstate on my mansome Harley.
Any questions about that?
im ignored
Yes, always.
LOL
in order to insult someone first they have to care what you
 >> think
There's a dildo outside and his name is assworm.
in order to insult someone first they have to care what you think
Jim Wilkins
2019-11-03 22:05:50 UTC
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Post by a425couple
James L. Holly
October 25 at 5:41 PM
I have a Master's Degree in History and I did not know this.
John Guy writes: "What God did at Pearl Harbor that day is
interesting and I never knew this little bit of history.
Tour boats ferry people out to the USS Arizona Memorial in Hawaii
every thirty minutes. We just missed a ferry and had to wait thirty
minutes. I went into a small gift shop to kill time.
In the gift shop, I purchased a small book entitled, "Reflections on
Pearl Harbor" by Admiral Chester Nimitz.
Sunday, December 7th, 1941- Admiral Chester Nimitz was attending a
concert in Washington, DC. He was paged and told there was a phone
call for him. When he answered the phone, it was President Franklin
Delano Roosevelt on the phone.
He told Admiral Nimitz that he (Nimitz) would now be the Commander
of the Pacific Fleet. Admiral Nimitz flew to Hawaii to assume
command of the Pacific Fleet. He landed at Pearl Harbor on Christmas
Eve, 1941. There was such a spirit of despair, dejection and
defeat--you would have thought the Japanese had already won the war.
On Christmas Day, 1941, Adm. Nimitz was given a boat tour of the
destruction wrought on Pearl Harbor by the Japanese. Big sunken
battleships and navy vessels cluttered the waters everywhere you
looked. As the tour boat returned to dock, the young helmsman of the
boat asked, "Well Admiral, what do you think after seeing all this
destruction?"
Admiral Nimitz's reply shocked everyone within the sound of his
voice. Admiral Nimitz said, "The Japanese made three of the biggest
mistakes an attack force could ever make, or God was taking care of
America. Which do you think it was?"
Shocked and surprised, the young helmsman asked, "What do mean by
saying the Japanese made the three biggest mistakes an attack force
ever made?
The Japanese attacked on Sunday morning. Nine out of every ten
crewmen of those ships were ashore on leave. If those same ships had
been lured to sea and been sunk--we would have lost 38,000 men
instead of 3,800.
When the Japanese saw all those battleships lined in a row, they got
so carried away sinking those battleships, they never once bombed
our dry docks opposite those ships. If they had destroyed our dry
docks, we would have had to tow every one of those ships to America
to be repaired. As it is now, the ships are in shallow water and can
be raised. One tug can pull them over to the dry docks, and we can
have them repaired and at sea by the time we could have towed them
to America. And I already have crews ashore anxious to man those
ships.
Mistake number three: Every drop of fuel in the Pacific theater of
war is in top of the ground storage tanks five miles away over that
hill. One attack plane could have strafed those tanks and destroyed
our fuel supply.
That's why I say the Japanese made three of the biggest mistakes an
attack force could make or, God was taking care of America.
I've never forgotten what I read in that little book. It is still an
inspiration as I reflect upon it. In jest, I might suggest that
because Admiral Nimitz was a Texan, born and raised in
Fredericksburg, Texas --
he was a born optimist.
But any way you look at it -- Admiral Nimitz was able to see a
silver lining in a situation and circumstance where everyone else
saw only despair and defeatism.
President Roosevelt had chosen the right man for the right job. We
desperately needed a leader that could see silver lining in the
midst of the clouds of dejection, despair and defeat.
There is a reason that our national motto is, IN GOD WE TRUST.
Why have we forgotten? PRAY FOR OUR COUNTRY! IN GOD WE TRUST."
also
James Maedgen They made an additional mistake, our aircraft carriers
were at sea. Carriers, the pilots that flew from them, and the US
Marines were the deciding factors in the Pacific theatre .
S.F!
Jim
http://www.kbismarck.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1767
Jim Wilkins
2019-11-03 22:29:00 UTC
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Post by a425couple
James L. Holly
October 25 at 5:41 PM
I have a Master's Degree in History and I did not know this.
John Guy writes: "What God did at Pearl Harbor that day is
interesting and I never knew this little bit of history.
Tour boats ferry people out to the USS Arizona Memorial in Hawaii
every thirty minutes. We just missed a ferry and had to wait thirty
minutes. I went into a small gift shop to kill time.
In the gift shop, I purchased a small book entitled, "Reflections
on Pearl Harbor" by Admiral Chester Nimitz.
Sunday, December 7th, 1941- Admiral Chester Nimitz was attending a
concert in Washington, DC. He was paged and told there was a phone
call for him. When he answered the phone, it was President Franklin
Delano Roosevelt on the phone.
He told Admiral Nimitz that he (Nimitz) would now be the Commander
of the Pacific Fleet. Admiral Nimitz flew to Hawaii to assume
command of the Pacific Fleet. He landed at Pearl Harbor on
Christmas Eve, 1941. There was such a spirit of despair, dejection
and defeat--you would have thought the Japanese had already won the
war.
On Christmas Day, 1941, Adm. Nimitz was given a boat tour of the
destruction wrought on Pearl Harbor by the Japanese. Big sunken
battleships and navy vessels cluttered the waters everywhere you
looked. As the tour boat returned to dock, the young helmsman of
the boat asked, "Well Admiral, what do you think after seeing all
this destruction?"
Admiral Nimitz's reply shocked everyone within the sound of his
voice. Admiral Nimitz said, "The Japanese made three of the biggest
mistakes an attack force could ever make, or God was taking care of
America. Which do you think it was?"
The targeted battleships were old and too slow at only 21 knots for
most WW2 fleet actions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard-type_battleship
"The ten surviving Standard Type battleships served throughout World
War II primarily as fire support for amphibious landings. Their low
speed relegated them to second line duties as they were too slow to
accompany the fleet carriers that had become the dominant combatant."
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2019-11-03 23:00:35 UTC
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On 11/3/2019 2:29 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

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Geoffrey Sinclair
2019-11-19 12:58:58 UTC
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Post by a425couple
James L. Holly
October 25 at 5:41 PM
I have a Master’s Degree in History and I did not know this.
John Guy writes: "What God did at Pearl Harbor that day is interesting and
I never knew this little bit of history.
Tour boats ferry people out to the USS Arizona Memorial in Hawaii every
thirty minutes. We just missed a ferry and had to wait thirty minutes. I
went into a small gift shop to kill time.
In the gift shop, I purchased a small book entitled, "Reflections on Pearl
Harbor" by Admiral Chester Nimitz.
Sunday, December 7th, 1941— Admiral Chester Nimitz was attending a concert
in Washington, DC. He was paged and told there was a phone call for him.
When he answered the phone, it was President Franklin Delano Roosevelt on
the phone.
He told Admiral Nimitz that he (Nimitz) would now be the Commander of the
Pacific Fleet. Admiral Nimitz flew to Hawaii to assume command of the
Pacific Fleet. He landed at Pearl Harbor on Christmas Eve, 1941. There was
such a spirit of despair, dejection and defeat--you would have thought the
Japanese had already won the war.
That is an over statement, Admiral Halsey for example was present,
it is true the USN became very cautious putting together a plan to
relieve or at least support Wake Island.
Post by a425couple
On Christmas Day, 1941, Adm. Nimitz was given a boat tour of the
destruction wrought on Pearl Harbor by the Japanese. Big sunken
battleships and navy vessels cluttered the waters everywhere you looked.
As the tour boat returned to dock, the young helmsman of the boat asked,
"Well Admiral, what do you think after seeing all this destruction?"
One battleship capsized, one exploded, one grounded, one sunk (its
watertight doors had been open for inspection), one also sunk to
avoid capsizing, two trapped by the sunk ships, one cruiser and
minelayer damaged by the same torpedo, target ship Utah capsized
destroyers Cassin and Downes effectively destroyed in Drydock 1.
Another cruiser torpedoed, one bombed, along with a seaplane tender
and the repair ship moored beside Arizona was damaged in the
explosion. All up 18 out of 96 ships sunk or damaged.
Post by a425couple
Admiral Nimitz's reply shocked everyone within the sound of his voice.
Admiral Nimitz said, "The Japanese made three of the biggest mistakes an
attack force could ever make, or God was taking care of America. Which do
you think it was?"
Shocked and surprised, the young helmsman asked, "What do mean by saying
the Japanese made the three biggest mistakes an attack force ever made?
The Japanese attacked on Sunday morning. Nine out of every ten crewmen of
those ships were ashore on leave. If those same ships had been lured to
sea and been sunk--we would have lost 38,000 men instead of 3,800.
There was no way 90% of the crews of the ships were ashore, plenty of
key personnel certainly, destroyers sailing under command of Ensigns
comes to mind. Nor were there 38,000 sailors needed to crew all the
96 USN ships present including auxiliaries and barges. Agreed if the
fleet had put to sea the casualties would have been higher, in ships at
least.

The ships were in number 3 degree of readiness, the battleships at a
slightly higher level.

Total casualties are put at USN 2,008 killed, 710 Wounded, Marines
109 killed, 69 wounded, Army 218 killed, 364 wounded, civilian 68
killed 38 wounded (mostly by friendly fire)
Post by a425couple
When the Japanese saw all those battleships lined in a row, they got so
carried away sinking those battleships, they never once bombed our dry
docks opposite those ships. If they had destroyed our dry docks, we would
have had to tow every one of those ships to America to be repaired. As it
is now, the ships are in shallow water and can be raised. One tug can pull
them over to the dry docks, and we can have them repaired and at sea by
the time we could have towed them to America. And I already have crews
ashore anxious to man those ships.
As the bombing campaigns proved bombing things like docks and
causing lasting damage was hard, the USS Shaw exploded while in
the floating dock, the dock seems to have survived quite well.

Destroying the dock gates would hurt.

There were also 2 dry docks with a third under construction plus a floating
dock, the IJN hit two of the three docks in use. Note where Cassin and
Downes were effectively destroyed.

Nevada took until October 1942, California to January 1944 and West
Virginia until September 1944 to rejoin the fleet. Tennessee, Maryland
and Pennsylvania did not need dry docking to repair damage.
Post by a425couple
Mistake number three: Every drop of fuel in the Pacific theater of war is
in top of the ground storage tanks five miles away over that hill. One
attack plane could have strafed those tanks and destroyed our fuel supply.
Bunker fuel is not high octane and as easily flammable, again heavy
bomber strikes on such targets showed they were quite resilient. Not
to mention the early hits throwing up so much smoke and dust they
hide the target. How many of the tanks were empty? How much
fuel was actually present and so how long to replenish the supply?

The IJN had a target rich environment, destroying US airpower was
tactically the better option, to prevent counter attacks and giving the
opportunity for later strikes on more strategic targets.
Post by a425couple
That's why I say the Japanese made three of the biggest mistakes an attack
force could make or, God was taking care of America.
I've never forgotten what I read in that little book. It is still an
inspiration as I reflect upon it. In jest, I might suggest that because
Admiral Nimitz was a Texan, born and raised in Fredericksburg, Texas --
he was a born optimist.
But any way you look at it -- Admiral Nimitz was able to see a silver
lining in a situation and circumstance where everyone else saw only
despair and defeatism.
Again exaggeration given the people present.
Post by a425couple
President Roosevelt had chosen the right man for the right job. We
desperately needed a leader that could see silver lining in the midst of
the clouds of dejection, despair and defeat.
There is a reason that our national motto is, IN GOD WE TRUST.
Why have we forgotten? PRAY FOR OUR COUNTRY! IN GOD WE TRUST."
also
James Maedgen They made an additional mistake, our aircraft carriers were
at sea. Carriers, the pilots that flew from them, and the US Marines were
the deciding factors in the Pacific theatre .
S.F!
Jim
No mistake, one carrier was in the US, one was quite findable if the IJN
flew searches on the way home, being on a run to deliver aircraft to
Midway and one was delayed by bad weather from arriving late on the
Saturday and then early on the Sunday and but for a wrong estimate of
IJN locations could have attempted to counter strike outnumbered six
to one while down aircraft that had earlier been flown off to Ford Island,
some of which were shot down en route.

Finally the IJN was not expecting to knock out the USN, but keep it quiet
enough for around 6 months while the conquest of South East Asia was
done. That part worked. The attack was proof positive trained aircrews
could sink major warships, add modern ones like Prince of Wales at sea,
and the IJN with its six carrier force had the air superiority.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.
Jim Wilkins
2019-11-19 18:27:36 UTC
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Post by Geoffrey Sinclair
...
Nevada took until October 1942, California to January 1944 and West
Virginia until September 1944 to rejoin the fleet. Tennessee,
Maryland
and Pennsylvania did not need dry docking to repair damage.
...
Geoffrey Sinclair
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/pearl-harbor-revenge-the-battleship-battle-surigao-strait-20713
"The heart of Oldendorf's battle line were the old battleships
Mississippi, Maryland, West Virginia, Tennessee, California, and
Pennsylvania. All but Mississippi were veterans of Pearl Harbor and
had been either sunk or badly damaged by the Japanese attack. Now they
were going to be given the chance to return the compliment."
Geoffrey Sinclair
2019-11-20 14:57:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jim Wilkins
Post by Geoffrey Sinclair
...
Nevada took until October 1942, California to January 1944 and West
Virginia until September 1944 to rejoin the fleet. Tennessee, Maryland
and Pennsylvania did not need dry docking to repair damage.
...
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/pearl-harbor-revenge-the-battleship-battle-surigao-strait-20713
"The heart of Oldendorf's battle line were the old battleships
Mississippi, Maryland, West Virginia, Tennessee, California, and
Pennsylvania. All but Mississippi were veterans of Pearl Harbor and had
been either sunk or badly damaged by the Japanese attack. Now they were
going to be given the chance to return the compliment."
Nice then to know the following

Pennsylvania was badly damaged or sunk by one bomb hit and
debris from Cassin and Downes.

"It is estimated repairs will be completed on December 17. Ship
was ready to go to sea immediately upon undocking on December
12, with exception of not having No. 9, 5"/51 gun ready. "

Maryland was badly damaged or sunk from around 2 bomb hits
(the after action report talks of extensive damage, basically to the
bow area only, that is the area outside the armour).

Tennessee was badly damaged or sunk by 2 bomb hits (one a dud)
plus oil fires and Arizona debris.

All three left Pearl Harbor on 20 December.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/battleship-uss-maryland-had-one-mission-kill-other-battleships-64666
Talks about Maryland being virtually unscathed, same site, different idea
about playing up or down the damage for dramatic effect.

The after action reports are on line at hyperwar, they give a much better
idea of the damage.

And a correction, the oil fire damage (and from Oklahoma's capsizing?)
meant Tennessee was docked to fix loose hull plates and rivets at Pearl
Harbor. Maryland did have underwater shrapnel damage, so far no
confirmation work was done at Pearl Harbor on it, only reference found
has it sent by sailing stern first to Puget Sound to have the work done.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.

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