Discussion:
What WW2 fighter would you choose ...
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Richard Johnson
2005-09-10 21:50:06 UTC
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if you wanted to be victorious in a one on one encounter with any other
fighter?

Whether it is a German, Russian, British, Japanese, Italian, American or any
other nationality, which fighter would be your choice to fly from 1939 to
1945 to be victorious against any other fighter?

Given pilot skills are closely matched, any mark or version of an aircraft,
and altitude about the same (that is altitude is not a factor to use for an
advantage).
WaltBJ
2005-09-10 22:13:10 UTC
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P38L
Walt BJ
Flyingmonk
2005-09-10 22:38:25 UTC
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P51 Mustang.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone
Eunometic
2005-09-11 00:56:50 UTC
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I believe its handling was inferior to that of the Spitire including a
nasty stall. It's strength was strategic not tactical: its tremendous
range allowed less fighers from less airfields flown by less pilots to
provide deeper escorts.

So if you want to win 1:1 the spit migh be better. If you want to win
a war the P-51 by far.
Joachim Schmid
2005-09-10 23:07:59 UTC
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Post by Richard Johnson
if you wanted to be victorious in a one on one encounter with any other
fighter?
Which boundary conditions (year, technology, introduction)?

If all models becoming operable before VE-day are allowed: Gloster Meteor
If only props allowed: Do-335
If only models fielded in significant numbers allowed: P-51H

See also: http://www.chuckhawks.com/best_fighter_planes.htm

Regards

Joachim
Alan Dicey
2005-09-10 23:09:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Johnson
if you wanted to be victorious in a one on one encounter with any other
fighter?
Whether it is a German, Russian, British, Japanese, Italian, American or any
other nationality, which fighter would be your choice to fly from 1939 to
1945 to be victorious against any other fighter?
Given pilot skills are closely matched, any mark or version of an aircraft,
and altitude about the same (that is altitude is not a factor to use for an
advantage).
Assuming also that range is not a factor (a bit artificial, but...) i.e.
we enter combat clean and with optimal fuel, then in descending order

Sea Fury (was flying in 1945, honest... :-) )
Spitfire Mk XVIII
P-47M
P-51D

The first two have the advantage in performance and also have 4x20mm
cannon which will really spoil the opponent's day
Richard Johnson
2005-09-11 01:07:38 UTC
Permalink
I believe the Sea Fury never saw action, but it sure is popular among
racers. I always see it near the top of the charts in races, along with the
Mustangs.
Post by Alan Dicey
Post by Richard Johnson
if you wanted to be victorious in a one on one encounter with any other
fighter?
Whether it is a German, Russian, British, Japanese, Italian, American or
any other nationality, which fighter would be your choice to fly from
1939 to 1945 to be victorious against any other fighter?
Given pilot skills are closely matched, any mark or version of an
aircraft, and altitude about the same (that is altitude is not a factor
to use for an advantage).
Assuming also that range is not a factor (a bit artificial, but...) i.e.
we enter combat clean and with optimal fuel, then in descending order
Sea Fury (was flying in 1945, honest... :-) )
Spitfire Mk XVIII
P-47M
P-51D
The first two have the advantage in performance and also have 4x20mm
cannon which will really spoil the opponent's day
Kevin Brooks
2005-09-11 03:51:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Johnson
I believe the Sea Fury never saw action, but it sure is popular among
racers. I always see it near the top of the charts in races, along with the
Mustangs.
While it did not see combat during WWII, it did in Korea (ISTR one was
credited with a MiG) and as late as during the Bay of Pigs fiasco, IIRC.

Brooks
Post by Richard Johnson
Post by Alan Dicey
Post by Richard Johnson
if you wanted to be victorious in a one on one encounter with any other
fighter?
Whether it is a German, Russian, British, Japanese, Italian, American or
any other nationality, which fighter would be your choice to fly from
1939 to 1945 to be victorious against any other fighter?
Given pilot skills are closely matched, any mark or version of an
aircraft, and altitude about the same (that is altitude is not a factor
to use for an advantage).
Assuming also that range is not a factor (a bit artificial, but...) i.e.
we enter combat clean and with optimal fuel, then in descending order
Sea Fury (was flying in 1945, honest... :-) )
Spitfire Mk XVIII
P-47M
P-51D
The first two have the advantage in performance and also have 4x20mm
cannon which will really spoil the opponent's day
Peter Skelton
2005-09-11 14:18:11 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 23:51:56 -0400, "Kevin Brooks"
Post by Kevin Brooks
Post by Richard Johnson
I believe the Sea Fury never saw action, but it sure is popular among
racers. I always see it near the top of the charts in races, along with the
Mustangs.
While it did not see combat during WWII, it did in Korea (ISTR one was
credited with a MiG) and as late as during the Bay of Pigs fiasco, IIRC.
Didn't Corsairs make it to Nam?


Peter Skelton
Steven P. McNicoll
2005-09-11 14:41:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Skelton
Didn't Corsairs make it to Nam?
Not the F4U Corsair. The A-7 Corsair II did in US service. Perhaps you're
confusing the F4U Corsair with the F8F Bearcat which the French used in
Indochina.
Chris Morton
2005-09-11 15:33:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Skelton
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 23:51:56 -0400, "Kevin Brooks"
Post by Kevin Brooks
Post by Richard Johnson
I believe the Sea Fury never saw action, but it sure is popular among
racers. I always see it near the top of the charts in races, along with the
Mustangs.
While it did not see combat during WWII, it did in Korea (ISTR one was
credited with a MiG) and as late as during the Bay of Pigs fiasco, IIRC.
Didn't Corsairs make it to Nam?
The Indo-China war with the French, not Vietnam I believe.
--
--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.
Andrew Robert Breen
2005-09-11 09:26:44 UTC
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Post by Richard Johnson
I believe the Sea Fury never saw action, but it sure is popular among
racers. I always see it near the top of the charts in races, along with the
The Sea Fury didn't see action in WW2, but it saw plenty in Korea.

As to the original question, maybe the DH Hornet. Fast (very fast!),
long ranged, robust engines (and two of them), agile, heavily armed
and - just - entering service at the end of the war.
--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)
Chris Morton
2005-09-10 23:05:44 UTC
Permalink
In article <hyIUe.20799$***@news20.bellglobal.com>, Richard Johnson
says...
Post by Richard Johnson
if you wanted to be victorious in a one on one encounter with any other
fighter?
Polikarpov I-153... with Stinger missiles. : )
--
--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.
Orval Fairbairn
2005-09-11 00:52:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Johnson
if you wanted to be victorious in a one on one encounter with any other
fighter?
Whether it is a German, Russian, British, Japanese, Italian, American or any
other nationality, which fighter would be your choice to fly from 1939 to
1945 to be victorious against any other fighter?
Given pilot skills are closely matched, any mark or version of an aircraft,
and altitude about the same (that is altitude is not a factor to use for an
advantage).
We must assume optimum conditions (no drop tanks, etc.)
Production airplanes (in no particular order):

Grumman F8F Bearcat
North American P-51H Mustang
Goodyear F2G Corsair
Ryan FR-2 Fireball
Hawker Sea Fury
Supermarine Spiteful or, maybe the Spitfire MkXXI

IMHO, these were all late-war aircraft and could handle the early jets
in a dogfight situation. All they had to do was turn tight and run the
jet out of fuel. All had excellent visibility and power/weight ratios.
John Carrier
2005-09-11 00:52:31 UTC
Permalink
Not sure it qualifies (never saw combat), but an F-8F.

R / John
Post by Richard Johnson
if you wanted to be victorious in a one on one encounter with any other
fighter?
Whether it is a German, Russian, British, Japanese, Italian, American or
any other nationality, which fighter would be your choice to fly from 1939
to 1945 to be victorious against any other fighter?
Given pilot skills are closely matched, any mark or version of an
aircraft, and altitude about the same (that is altitude is not a factor to
use for an advantage).
Rob Arndt
2005-09-11 01:56:09 UTC
Permalink
Hard choice when all the variables are considered between 1939-1945. I
think most people here are going to go with late-war models and/or
designs emerging in 1945 for postwar (prop or jet). I was always
curious about the a/c that didn't quite make it into combat:

Supermarine Spiteful Mk.XVI
Martin Baker M.B.5
Do-335 Pfeil
Kyushu Shinden

Those that barely made it into combat:

Fw Ta 152
Fiat G.55 Centauro

Regular combat:

Fw 190D-9

Rob
Kyle Boatright
2005-09-11 02:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Carrier
Not sure it qualifies (never saw combat), but an F-8F.
R / John
Agreed. The F8F was small, light, maneuverable, and <I think> had the best
power to weight ratio of anything available at the time. In simulated
combat against the Sea Fury, it allegedly beat the Fury in everything except
performance in a dive.

My second choice would be the P-80. Performance similar to the other early
jets, but the single engine meant you had 1/2 the chance of an engine
failure, and it supposedly had better handling than the Me-262. Use its
speed and zoom climb ability and choose combat on your terms.
Peter Skelton
2005-09-11 14:19:13 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 22:40:02 -0400, "Kyle Boatright"
Post by Kyle Boatright
Post by John Carrier
Not sure it qualifies (never saw combat), but an F-8F.
R / John
Agreed. The F8F was small, light, maneuverable, and <I think> had the best
power to weight ratio of anything available at the time. In simulated
combat against the Sea Fury, it allegedly beat the Fury in everything except
performance in a dive.
My second choice would be the P-80. Performance similar to the other early
jets, but the single engine meant you had 1/2 the chance of an engine
failure, and it supposedly had better handling than the Me-262. Use its
speed and zoom climb ability and choose combat on your terms.
One thing I find interesting is that some version of Spitfire
should be considered, no matter what wartime date you choose.

Peter Skelton
Glenn Dowdy
2005-09-11 03:33:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Johnson
if you wanted to be victorious in a one on one encounter with any other
fighter?
Whether it is a German, Russian, British, Japanese, Italian, American or
any other nationality, which fighter would be your choice to fly from 1939
to 1945 to be victorious against any other fighter?
Does going back in time to 1941 count?

Glenn D.
FatKat
2005-09-11 15:47:23 UTC
Permalink
Going by my experience in flight sims only I'd go for the Hellcat.
It's easy to fly, and I like the idea of an air cooled engine. My 2nd
choice would be the FW-190, though I can't be sure of the exact
version. Please keep in mind that I don't pretend to be a pilot, so
please remember that when you get set to flame me.
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