Discussion:
F-14 D VS SU-27
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w***@gmail.com
2019-10-30 06:06:13 UTC
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How would the F-14 D with its much improved Thrust/weight ratio do
against the Su-27 or the F-15 C.The F-14 is still a great bvr
fighter,and with the D model it should do well in a dogfight
against the SU-27,since US navy pilots are among the best in the world.I
would like to hear other comments on this.
Well guys many many years after these responses I am going to point out that Iranian AF still flys the f14 and used the AIM54A very successfully against all enemy threats. Many enemy aircraft were splashed by the AIM54A. So, now 22 years later, the AIM54C would be even better to fight with. TheF14 turns much tighter than pilots realize, through design and innovation way back in the 70's. This bird could turn on a dime with 9 cents change given back to you. Look at Top Gun action pics again, closely, and you will the F14 just turn on it's wingtip point, which no other aircraft can do.
Dean Markley
2019-10-30 11:38:06 UTC
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Post by w***@gmail.com
How would the F-14 D with its much improved Thrust/weight ratio do
against the Su-27 or the F-15 C.The F-14 is still a great bvr
fighter,and with the D model it should do well in a dogfight
against the SU-27,since US navy pilots are among the best in the world.I
would like to hear other comments on this.
Well guys many many years after these responses I am going to point out that Iranian AF still flys the f14 and used the AIM54A very successfully against all enemy threats. Many enemy aircraft were splashed by the AIM54A. So, now 22 years later, the AIM54C would be even better to fight with. TheF14 turns much tighter than pilots realize, through design and innovation way back in the 70's. This bird could turn on a dime with 9 cents change given back to you. Look at Top Gun action pics again, closely, and you will the F14 just turn on it's wingtip point, which no other aircraft can do.
But there are no AIM-54Cs anymore.
Jeff Crowell
2019-11-05 15:00:14 UTC
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Post by Dean Markley
But there are no AIM-54Cs anymore.
Indeed. Any remaining Phoenix missile's rocket motor has long since expired. And certainly no sourced of spares or replacement parts, for the missile or the bird.

Supposedly, the Iranians have jury-rigged Hawk missiles to be launched from the Tomcats. I have no opinion on that, but I suppose it's possible.

Even as far back as the Iran-Iraq war, the Iranians mostly used the Turkeys as mini-AWACS, and did the shooting and scooting with Phantoms and Tiger IIs. Wiki says that one Iranian pilot shot down 11 Iraqi aircraft in a Tomcat, so there definitely was some turning and burning done by them.

Iran has built itself some level of aerospace industry (at least enough to build helos), but there's only so many times you can zero-time an airframe with a bootstrap industry.


Jeff
--
You are outgunned only if you miss. - Jeff Cooper
Peter Stickney
2019-11-06 08:38:57 UTC
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Post by Jeff Crowell
Post by Dean Markley
But there are no AIM-54Cs anymore.
Indeed. Any remaining Phoenix missile's rocket motor has long since
expired. And certainly no sourced of spares or replacement parts, for
the missile or the bird.
Supposedly, the Iranians have jury-rigged Hawk missiles to be launched
from the Tomcats. I have no opinion on that, but I suppose it's
possible.
At first, I was dubious, It has been something rumored for years, but I
have since discovered that the Hawk SARH seeker is a derivative of the
seeker used on the early Sparrows. If a weapons control system can guide
an AIM-7E, then it could conceivably guide a Hawk.
As for the performance - the limits are going to be illuminator power and
receiver sensitivity, rather than kinematics.
Post by Jeff Crowell
Even as far back as the Iran-Iraq war, the Iranians mostly used the
Turkeys as mini-AWACS, and did the shooting and scooting with Phantoms
and Tiger IIs. Wiki says that one Iranian pilot shot down 11 Iraqi
aircraft in a Tomcat, so there definitely was some turning and burning
done by them.
Iran has built itself some level of aerospace industry (at least enough
to build helos), but there's only so many times you can zero-time an
airframe with a bootstrap industry.
Jeff
--
Pete Stickney
“A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures.” ― Daniel Webster
Jeff Crowell
2019-11-07 16:10:07 UTC
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Post by Peter Stickney
the Hawk SARH seeker is a derivative of the
seeker used on the early Sparrows. If a weapons control system can guide
an AIM-7E, then it could conceivably guide a Hawk.
The weapons control system on the aircraft does essentially nothing
to "guide" a Sparrow. There's some pre-launch palaver between missile
and aircraft, that's all, and the rest is just the missile seeking
reflected pulse Doppler or CW RF energy (in the case of AIM-7 variants,
anyway).
Post by Peter Stickney
As for the performance - the limits are going to be illuminator power and
receiver sensitivity, rather than kinematics.
True.


Jeff
--
Ignorance killed the cat. Curiosity was framed.
Robert Heinlein
Peter Stickney
2019-11-20 03:31:43 UTC
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the Hawk SARH seeker is a derivative of the seeker used on the early
Sparrows. If a weapons control system can guide an AIM-7E, then it
could conceivably guide a Hawk.
The weapons control system on the aircraft does essentially nothing to
"guide" a Sparrow. There's some pre-launch palaver between missile and
aircraft, that's all, and the rest is just the missile seeking reflected
pulse Doppler or CW RF energy (in the case of AIM-7 variants,
anyway).
You're right on that - once the missile's flying, all it needs is the CW
beam from the illuminator.

I was oversimplifying. Before the missile launches, there's a whole
bunch of handshaking that goes on to get the missile woken up and looking
at the right place before the Fire Signal occurs - some of which would
probably require some translation from Sparrow to Hawk.
As for the performance - the limits are going to be illuminator power
and receiver sensitivity, rather than kinematics.
True.
Jeff
--
Pete Stickney
“A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures.” ― Daniel Webster
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