F-22s barred from supporting troops

[Henry J Cobb]

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htlead/articles/20071004.aspx

Therefore, F-22 pilots will specialize in air-to-air combat, and the
destruction of enemy air defenses. This latter job is the most
dangerous one for a pilot, but it is essential during the early stages
of any war or battle. The stealthy F-22 is ideally suited for
defeating enemy radars and anti-aircraft missiles. But to do this
right, in a single seat fighter, you need lots of practice. That's why
F-22 pilots will concentrate on only those two missions.

Since there is no air to air combat or fixed anti-air defenses in Iraq
and Afghanistan this is a dandy excuse for keeping the F-22 out of the
fight.

But there is one more thing you could do with an "invisible" aircraft.
Patrol the borders without alerting Iran or Syria so you can catch their
support for the "insurgents".

Pity the USAF stunted the Raptor's air to ground radar and other
sensors. So we're going to have thousands of more dead Americans while
we wait for lightning to strike twice.

-HJC

[150flivver]

Post by Henry J Cobb
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htlead/articles/20071004.aspx

Therefore, F-22 pilots will specialize in air-to-air combat, and the
destruction of enemy air defenses. This latter job is the most
dangerous one for a pilot, but it is essential during the early stages
of any war or battle. The stealthy F-22 is ideally suited for
defeating enemy radars and anti-aircraft missiles. But to do this
right, in a single seat fighter, you need lots of practice. That's why
F-22 pilots will concentrate on only those two missions.

Since there is no air to air combat or fixed anti-air defenses in Iraq
and Afghanistan this is a dandy excuse for keeping the F-22 out of the
fight.
But there is one more thing you could do with an "invisible" aircraft.
Patrol the borders without alerting Iran or Syria so you can catch their
support for the "insurgents".
Pity the USAF stunted the Raptor's air to ground radar and other
sensors. So we're going to have thousands of more dead Americans while
we wait for lightning to strike twice.
-HJC

There's nothing a Raptor could do patrolling borders that our overhead
satellites and UAVs don't already do. Using F-22s to patrol borders
would be a huge waste. Oh, by the way, Raptors are not invisible, to
the eye or to radar--there is a big difference between Stealth and a
Klingon cloaking device.

[Ed Rasimus]

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 08:27:59 -0700, 150flivver

Post by 150flivver

Post by Henry J Cobb
Since there is no air to air combat or fixed anti-air defenses in Iraq
and Afghanistan this is a dandy excuse for keeping the F-22 out of the
fight.

Yes, it also is a good excuse for keeping the Iowa, New Jersey and
Missouri in mothballs.

Post by 150flivver

Post by Henry J Cobb
But there is one more thing you could do with an "invisible" aircraft.
Patrol the borders without alerting Iran or Syria so you can catch their
support for the "insurgents".

It seems like Predator, Rivet Joint, JSTARS and satellites are keeping
an adequate watch.

Post by 150flivver

Post by Henry J Cobb
Pity the USAF stunted the Raptor's air to ground radar and other
sensors. So we're going to have thousands of more dead Americans while
we wait for lightning to strike twice.

You're at least a couple of generations out of date with the concept
of self-carried, forward-looking, high-power emitting sensors for
tactical aircraft. The whole business has evolved into data sharing
and sensor fusion, which means that tactical aircraft seamlessly
integrate info from a wide range of platforms to do their missions.

Post by 150flivver

Post by Henry J Cobb
-HJC

There's nothing a Raptor could do patrolling borders that our overhead
satellites and UAVs don't already do. Using F-22s to patrol borders
would be a huge waste. Oh, by the way, Raptors are not invisible, to
the eye or to radar--there is a big difference between Stealth and a
Klingon cloaking device.

That would be the Romulans, of course.
Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[Henry J Cobb]

Post by Ed Rasimus
It seems like Predator, Rivet Joint, JSTARS and satellites are keeping
an adequate watch.

Really? The guy from that MoveOn ad doesn't seem to think he's got a
decent hold on Iraq's borders.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,299940,00.html
"They are responsible for providing the weapons, the training, the
funding and in some cases the direction for operations that have indeed
killed U.S. soldiers," Petraeus said.

If he was finding out about the attacks ahead of time then they wouldn't
be killing the U.S. soldiers.

Pity the Brits no longer patrol southern Iraq.

-HJC

[Rob Arndt]

Post by Ed Rasimus
It seems like Predator, Rivet Joint, JSTARS and satellites are keeping
an adequate watch.

Really? Then that's all they are doing- WATCHING the flow...

Where are all the attacks to stop the deluge of illegal arms and
insurgents into Iraq?

Looks like Ed doesn't know Shiiiiiiite!

Iran does ;)

Rob

p.s. T

[Rob Arndt]

p.s. The only way the "Craptor" can stay "invisible" in combat is to not participate in it :)

[Dan]

Post by Rob Arndt

Post by Ed Rasimus
It seems like Predator, Rivet Joint, JSTARS and satellites are keeping
an adequate watch.

Really? Then that's all they are doing- WATCHING the flow...
Where are all the attacks to stop the deluge of illegal arms and
insurgents into Iraq?

You don't watch the news, do you, xenia?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Rob Arndt]

Post by Dan

Post by Rob Arndt

Post by Ed Rasimus
It seems like Predator, Rivet Joint, JSTARS and satellites are keeping
an adequate watch.

Really? Then that's all they are doing- WATCHING the flow...
Where are all the attacks to stop the deluge of illegal arms and
insurgents into Iraq?

You don't watch the news, do you, xenia?
Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Obviously you don't as one surge/push after another fails to stop that
flow while US casulaties climb and Iraq remains a sectarian mess with
the Shias in line to control any post-US Iraq.

Rob

[Dan]

Post by Rob Arndt

Post by Dan

Post by Rob Arndt

Post by Ed Rasimus
It seems like Predator, Rivet Joint, JSTARS and satellites are keeping
an adequate watch.

Really? Then that's all they are doing- WATCHING the flow...
Where are all the attacks to stop the deluge of illegal arms and
insurgents into Iraq?

You don't watch the news, do you, xenia?
Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Obviously you don't as one surge/push after another fails to stop that
flow while US casulaties climb and Iraq remains a sectarian mess with
the Shias in line to control any post-US Iraq.
Rob

You asked here are all the attacks to stop the deluge of illegal arms
and insurgents into Iraq?" and it is obvious you haven't been watching
the news. I never said they had STOPPED the influx, just that the
interdiction is taking place. I answered the question as you put it, xenia.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Henry J Cobb]

Post by Rob Arndt
Obviously you don't as one surge/push after another fails to stop that
flow while US casulaties climb and Iraq remains a sectarian mess with
the Shias in line to control any post-US Iraq.

The Shia are not the problem.

What is the problem is a small radical fringe element under the control
of Iranian revolutionary elements.

Brittan bugging out of southern Iraq has left the terrorists to win by
intimidating or killing all the Shia (there's hardly anybody else down
south, in spite of Saddam's Stalin style relocation programs) who oppose
them.

The only way to win this fight with the very thin line of troops we have
in Iraq (though it's a much bigger ratio of grunts to natives than in
Afghanistan (Remember 9/11? Bush seems to have forgotten it...)) is to
be able to react faster than the enemy can deploy.

That requires a V-22 transported force that can call on airpower with
extremely fast reaction times. Which means the Super Hornet, as the Air
Force says that the Raptor doesn't do windows or ground support.

Isn't it nice to have armed services who can say "Not our job"? Pity
the US Army didn't take one look at Operation Iraqi Liberation and say
"We don't do nation building, pass."

-HJC

[John Keeney]

Post by Ed Rasimus
On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 08:27:59 -0700, 150flivver

Post by 150flivver
the eye or to radar--there is a big difference between Stealth and a
Klingon cloaking device.

That would be the Romulans, of course.
Ed Rasimus

Dang, you're old school there, Ed.
By the time they got around to making "The Next Generation" the
writers had forgotten the naggin little details and Klingons were
flying cloaked Birds or Prey. Once the Romulans finally made another
apperance they had some odd ball hollow design; it did still cloak
though.

[Rob Arndt]

Post by John Keeney

Post by Ed Rasimus
On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 08:27:59 -0700, 150flivver

Post by 150flivver
the eye or to radar--there is a big difference between Stealth and a
Klingon cloaking device.

That would be the Romulans, of course.
Ed Rasimus

Dang, you're old school there, Ed.
By the time they got around to making "The Next Generation" the
writers had forgotten the naggin little details and Klingons were
flying cloaked Birds or Prey. Once the Romulans finally made another
apperance they had some odd ball hollow design; it did still cloak
though.

The Romulan ship was a D'deridex Class Warbird:
http://www.kitsune.addr.com/SF-Conversions/Rifts-Trek-Ships/Romulan_Warbird.htm

Rob

p.s. That "oddball" design was more powerful than any Enterprise
model... if you knew anything about Star Trek TNG.

[Dean A. Markley]

Post by 150flivver

Post by Henry J Cobb
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htlead/articles/20071004.aspx

Therefore, F-22 pilots will specialize in air-to-air combat, and the
destruction of enemy air defenses. This latter job is the most
dangerous one for a pilot, but it is essential during the early stages
of any war or battle. The stealthy F-22 is ideally suited for
defeating enemy radars and anti-aircraft missiles. But to do this
right, in a single seat fighter, you need lots of practice. That's why
F-22 pilots will concentrate on only those two missions.

Since there is no air to air combat or fixed anti-air defenses in Iraq
and Afghanistan this is a dandy excuse for keeping the F-22 out of the
fight.
But there is one more thing you could do with an "invisible" aircraft.
Patrol the borders without alerting Iran or Syria so you can catch their
support for the "insurgents".
Pity the USAF stunted the Raptor's air to ground radar and other
sensors. So we're going to have thousands of more dead Americans while
we wait for lightning to strike twice.
-HJC

There's nothing a Raptor could do patrolling borders that our overhead
satellites and UAVs don't already do. Using F-22s to patrol borders
would be a huge waste. Oh, by the way, Raptors are not invisible, to
the eye or to radar--there is a big difference between Stealth and a
Klingon cloaking device.

You do understand that the Klingon cloaking device is not real?

[Gordon Beaman]

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:45:18 -0400, "Dean A. Markley"

Post by Dean A. Markley

Post by 150flivver
There's nothing a Raptor could do patrolling borders that our overhead
satellites and UAVs don't already do. Using F-22s to patrol borders
would be a huge waste. Oh, by the way, Raptors are not invisible, to
the eye or to radar--there is a big difference between Stealth and a
Klingon cloaking device.

You do understand that the Klingon cloaking device is not real?

How can you tell?...ever seen one?...

[Dan]

Post by Gordon Beaman
On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:45:18 -0400, "Dean A. Markley"

Post by Dean A. Markley

Post by 150flivver
There's nothing a Raptor could do patrolling borders that our overhead
satellites and UAVs don't already do. Using F-22s to patrol borders
would be a huge waste. Oh, by the way, Raptors are not invisible, to
the eye or to radar--there is a big difference between Stealth and a
Klingon cloaking device.

You do understand that the Klingon cloaking device is not real?

How can you tell?...ever seen one?...

Are you out of your Vulcan mind?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Rob Arndt]

Post by 150flivver

Post by Henry J Cobb
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htlead/articles/20071004.aspx

Therefore, F-22 pilots will specialize in air-to-air combat, and the
destruction of enemy air defenses. This latter job is the most
dangerous one for a pilot, but it is essential during the early stages
of any war or battle. The stealthy F-22 is ideally suited for
defeating enemy radars and anti-aircraft missiles. But to do this
right, in a single seat fighter, you need lots of practice. That's why
F-22 pilots will concentrate on only those two missions.

Since there is no air to air combat or fixed anti-air defenses in Iraq
and Afghanistan this is a dandy excuse for keeping the F-22 out of the
fight.
But there is one more thing you could do with an "invisible" aircraft.
Patrol the borders without alerting Iran or Syria so you can catch their
support for the "insurgents".
Pity the USAF stunted the Raptor's air to ground radar and other
sensors. So we're going to have thousands of more dead Americans while
we wait for lightning to strike twice.
-HJC

There's nothing a Raptor could do patrolling borders that our overhead
satellites and UAVs don't already do. Using F-22s to patrol borders
would be a huge waste. Oh, by the way, Raptors are not invisible, to
the eye or to radar--there is a big difference between Stealth and a
Klingon cloaking device.

You do understand that the Klingon cloaking device is not real?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

You do understand that electrochromatic camouflage and European
miraflage exists and that it IS a crude form of cloaking device?

Also, the Germans have made a material for snipers and SFs that cloaks
them from IR detection. I posted on that years ago.

Rob

[Dean A. Markley]

Post by Rob Arndt

Post by 150flivver

Post by Henry J Cobb
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htlead/articles/20071004.aspx

Therefore, F-22 pilots will specialize in air-to-air combat, and the
destruction of enemy air defenses. This latter job is the most
dangerous one for a pilot, but it is essential during the early stages
of any war or battle. The stealthy F-22 is ideally suited for
defeating enemy radars and anti-aircraft missiles. But to do this
right, in a single seat fighter, you need lots of practice. That's why
F-22 pilots will concentrate on only those two missions.

Since there is no air to air combat or fixed anti-air defenses in Iraq
and Afghanistan this is a dandy excuse for keeping the F-22 out of the
fight.
But there is one more thing you could do with an "invisible" aircraft.
Patrol the borders without alerting Iran or Syria so you can catch their
support for the "insurgents".
Pity the USAF stunted the Raptor's air to ground radar and other
sensors. So we're going to have thousands of more dead Americans while
we wait for lightning to strike twice.
-HJC

There's nothing a Raptor could do patrolling borders that our overhead
satellites and UAVs don't already do. Using F-22s to patrol borders
would be a huge waste. Oh, by the way, Raptors are not invisible, to
the eye or to radar--there is a big difference between Stealth and a
Klingon cloaking device.

You do understand that the Klingon cloaking device is not real?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

You do understand that electrochromatic camouflage and European
miraflage exists and that it IS a crude form of cloaking device?
Also, the Germans have made a material for snipers and SFs that cloaks
them from IR detection. I posted on that years ago.
Rob

Rob, you are telling someone who works with electrochromic materials.
And is there ANYTHING you have NOT posted on?

[Rob Arndt]

Post by Dean A. Markley

Post by Rob Arndt

Post by 150flivver

Post by Henry J Cobb
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htlead/articles/20071004.aspx

Therefore, F-22 pilots will specialize in air-to-air combat, and the
destruction of enemy air defenses. This latter job is the most
dangerous one for a pilot, but it is essential during the early stages
of any war or battle. The stealthy F-22 is ideally suited for
defeating enemy radars and anti-aircraft missiles. But to do this
right, in a single seat fighter, you need lots of practice. That's why
F-22 pilots will concentrate on only those two missions.

Since there is no air to air combat or fixed anti-air defenses in Iraq
and Afghanistan this is a dandy excuse for keeping the F-22 out of the
fight.
But there is one more thing you could do with an "invisible" aircraft.
Patrol the borders without alerting Iran or Syria so you can catch their
support for the "insurgents".
Pity the USAF stunted the Raptor's air to ground radar and other
sensors. So we're going to have thousands of more dead Americans while
we wait for lightning to strike twice.
-HJC

There's nothing a Raptor could do patrolling borders that our overhead
satellites and UAVs don't already do. Using F-22s to patrol borders
would be a huge waste. Oh, by the way, Raptors are not invisible, to
the eye or to radar--there is a big difference between Stealth and a
Klingon cloaking device.

You do understand that the Klingon cloaking device is not real?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

You do understand that electrochromatic camouflage and European
miraflage exists and that it IS a crude form of cloaking device?
Also, the Germans have made a material for snipers and SFs that cloaks
them from IR detection. I posted on that years ago.
Rob

Rob, you are telling someone who works with electrochromic materials.
And is there ANYTHING you have NOT posted on?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

When it comes to so-called "new or future" technologies, I have posted
on them extensively. Why don't you review the archive? Here is just
one example from almost 6 years ago.
The US (like its European Allies) are exploring a wide range of new
technologies for the "future" soldier. However, the IOC for these
technologies is circa 2010, with FOC being anywhere from 2015-2025.

I personally favor the European "visions" of the future soldier-
those
being explored by the French, British, and Germans.


Here are some of the technologies they are exploring:


Rifle:


SF (Self-Forging) gun: fires ammo that forges itself into
projectiles.
Liquid-Propellant AMR: uses variable amts of liquid propellant for
different ranges.
Caseless Weapons: Proven by German HK G-11, experimental work
continues on caseless LMG and pistol.
Wavelength Weapons: fires "transmitted" burst of energy


ATW:


Microfusion Weapon


Armor:


for troops: Microstrand Fibre- 12 times stronger than steel
for vehicles: Magnetic Charge Plate, a field-deflective system


Camouflage:


for troops: Photoreactive, changing from lighter to darker colors
Microdot, changing patterns
Field-Disruptive Pattern, hard to look at type- confuses
brain
Active, Electronic Camouflage- generated by carried gear
For vehicles: Electrochromatic, able to change color


Vision Devices:


Combined Optics... several devices (Thermal Imager, Laser
Rangefinder,
Electro-optics) into 1 device
Multi-channel HOD (Head On Display)- helmet mounted type


Other Devices:


for rifle: Dazzlers, blinding hostile light device
False Imager, projecting false images to confuse enemy
TSP (Transmitted Sight Picture)
for soldier: European Electronic Language Translator
Portable Sat-phone, GPS, computer gear


Armored Vehicles:


Tracked vehicles increasingly replaced with wheeled family of
vehicles
(8x8 MBTs, 6x6 IFVs, 4x4 recon/scout).
New vehicles on battlefield: German Kranpanzer (Crane Tank) with
armament located on a retractable crane. One vehicle already exists-
the RakJpz Panther.
ACRs (Autonomous Combat Robots): wheeled, tracked, and walking types
(no joke)


Air Support:


Rotorless Magnacopter


Well, this is just a short listing of the technologies envisioned by
the Europeans.


Rob

p.s. I doubt that you know anything about the German anti-IR stealth
material.

[Dan]

Post by Rob Arndt

Post by Dean A. Markley

Post by Rob Arndt

Post by 150flivver

Post by Henry J Cobb
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htlead/articles/20071004.aspx

Therefore, F-22 pilots will specialize in air-to-air combat, and the
destruction of enemy air defenses. This latter job is the most
dangerous one for a pilot, but it is essential during the early stages
of any war or battle. The stealthy F-22 is ideally suited for
defeating enemy radars and anti-aircraft missiles. But to do this
right, in a single seat fighter, you need lots of practice. That's why
F-22 pilots will concentrate on only those two missions.

Since there is no air to air combat or fixed anti-air defenses in Iraq
and Afghanistan this is a dandy excuse for keeping the F-22 out of the
fight.
But there is one more thing you could do with an "invisible" aircraft.
Patrol the borders without alerting Iran or Syria so you can catch their
support for the "insurgents".
Pity the USAF stunted the Raptor's air to ground radar and other
sensors. So we're going to have thousands of more dead Americans while
we wait for lightning to strike twice.
-HJC

There's nothing a Raptor could do patrolling borders that our overhead
satellites and UAVs don't already do. Using F-22s to patrol borders
would be a huge waste. Oh, by the way, Raptors are not invisible, to
the eye or to radar--there is a big difference between Stealth and a
Klingon cloaking device.

You do understand that the Klingon cloaking device is not real?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

You do understand that electrochromatic camouflage and European
miraflage exists and that it IS a crude form of cloaking device?
Also, the Germans have made a material for snipers and SFs that cloaks
them from IR detection. I posted on that years ago.
Rob

Rob, you are telling someone who works with electrochromic materials.
And is there ANYTHING you have NOT posted on?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

When it comes to so-called "new or future" technologies, I have posted
on them extensively. Why don't you review the archive? Here is just
one example from almost 6 years ago.
The US (like its European Allies) are exploring a wide range of new
technologies for the "future" soldier. However, the IOC for these
technologies is circa 2010, with FOC being anywhere from 2015-2025.
I personally favor the European "visions" of the future soldier-
those
being explored by the French, British, and Germans.
SF (Self-Forging) gun: fires ammo that forges itself into
projectiles.
Liquid-Propellant AMR: uses variable amts of liquid propellant for
different ranges.
Caseless Weapons: Proven by German HK G-11, experimental work
continues on caseless LMG and pistol.
Wavelength Weapons: fires "transmitted" burst of energy
Microfusion Weapon
for troops: Microstrand Fibre- 12 times stronger than steel
for vehicles: Magnetic Charge Plate, a field-deflective system
for troops: Photoreactive, changing from lighter to darker colors
Microdot, changing patterns
Field-Disruptive Pattern, hard to look at type- confuses
brain
Active, Electronic Camouflage- generated by carried gear
For vehicles: Electrochromatic, able to change color
Combined Optics... several devices (Thermal Imager, Laser
Rangefinder,
Electro-optics) into 1 device
Multi-channel HOD (Head On Display)- helmet mounted type
for rifle: Dazzlers, blinding hostile light device
False Imager, projecting false images to confuse enemy
TSP (Transmitted Sight Picture)
for soldier: European Electronic Language Translator
Portable Sat-phone, GPS, computer gear
Tracked vehicles increasingly replaced with wheeled family of
vehicles
(8x8 MBTs, 6x6 IFVs, 4x4 recon/scout).
New vehicles on battlefield: German Kranpanzer (Crane Tank) with
armament located on a retractable crane. One vehicle already exists-
the RakJpz Panther.
ACRs (Autonomous Combat Robots): wheeled, tracked, and walking types
(no joke)
Rotorless Magnacopter
Well, this is just a short listing of the technologies envisioned by
the Europeans.
Rob
p.s. I doubt that you know anything about the German anti-IR stealth
material.

And everyone else doubts you understand what you are talking about,
miss xenia. Without looking it up please explain to us what EMF is and
how it works.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Dean A. Markley]

Snipped to save increasingly scarce electrons....

Post by Rob Arndt

Post by Dean A. Markley

Post by Rob Arndt
You do understand that electrochromatic camouflage and European
miraflage exists and that it IS a crude form of cloaking device?
Also, the Germans have made a material for snipers and SFs that cloaks
them from IR detection. I posted on that years ago.
Rob

Rob, you are telling someone who works with electrochromic materials.
And is there ANYTHING you have NOT posted on?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

When it comes to so-called "new or future" technologies, I have posted
on them extensively. Why don't you review the archive? Here is just
one example from almost 6 years ago.
The US (like its European Allies) are exploring a wide range of new
technologies for the "future" soldier. However, the IOC for these
technologies is circa 2010, with FOC being anywhere from 2015-2025.
I personally favor the European "visions" of the future soldier-
those
being explored by the French, British, and Germans.
SF (Self-Forging) gun: fires ammo that forges itself into
projectiles.
Liquid-Propellant AMR: uses variable amts of liquid propellant for
different ranges.
Caseless Weapons: Proven by German HK G-11, experimental work
continues on caseless LMG and pistol.
Wavelength Weapons: fires "transmitted" burst of energy
Microfusion Weapon
for troops: Microstrand Fibre- 12 times stronger than steel
for vehicles: Magnetic Charge Plate, a field-deflective system
for troops: Photoreactive, changing from lighter to darker colors
Microdot, changing patterns
Field-Disruptive Pattern, hard to look at type- confuses
brain
Active, Electronic Camouflage- generated by carried gear
For vehicles: Electrochromatic, able to change color
Combined Optics... several devices (Thermal Imager, Laser
Rangefinder,
Electro-optics) into 1 device
Multi-channel HOD (Head On Display)- helmet mounted type
for rifle: Dazzlers, blinding hostile light device
False Imager, projecting false images to confuse enemy
TSP (Transmitted Sight Picture)
for soldier: European Electronic Language Translator
Portable Sat-phone, GPS, computer gear
Tracked vehicles increasingly replaced with wheeled family of
vehicles
(8x8 MBTs, 6x6 IFVs, 4x4 recon/scout).
New vehicles on battlefield: German Kranpanzer (Crane Tank) with
armament located on a retractable crane. One vehicle already exists-
the RakJpz Panther.
ACRs (Autonomous Combat Robots): wheeled, tracked, and walking types
(no joke)
Rotorless Magnacopter
Well, this is just a short listing of the technologies envisioned by
the Europeans.
Rob
p.s. I doubt that you know anything about the German anti-IR stealth
material.

Envisioned is another term for wish list. Until the Europeans pony up
the money, none of this stuff will happen. Its also interesting how the
Germans are using their current technology in the relatively safe areas
of northern Afghanistan.

You can doubt all you want and you'd be correct. I have no need to know
anything about German anti-IR stealth material. However, when the
German stealth fighters are lauded for their performance over
Afghanistan and probably soon, Iran, then I may take an interest in it.

[Ian B MacLure]

Henry J Cobb <***@io.com> wrote in news:96OdnQZ-
***@io.com:

[snip]

Post by Henry J Cobb
Since there is no air to air combat or fixed anti-air defenses in Iraq
and Afghanistan this is a dandy excuse for keeping the F-22 out of the
fight.

F22's primary mission is air-superiority. If there is no opposition
it makes little sense to deploy them this early in their life
cycle

Post by Henry J Cobb
But there is one more thing you could do with an "invisible" aircraft.
Patrol the borders without alerting Iran or Syria so you can catch

their support for the "insurgents".

We can already do things like that with what we have in-country.

Post by Henry J Cobb
Pity the USAF stunted the Raptor's air to ground radar and other
sensors. So we're going to have thousands of more dead Americans while
we wait for lightning to strike twice.

if you try for a completely general aircraft you inevitably
compromise the primary mission.

An then there's the fact yer a moron.

IBM

[Herbert Viola]

Post by Henry J Cobb
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htlead/articles/20071004.aspx

Therefore, F-22 pilots will specialize in air-to-air combat, and the
destruction of enemy air defenses. This latter job is the most
dangerous one for a pilot, but it is essential during the early stages
of any war or battle. The stealthy F-22 is ideally suited for
defeating enemy radars and anti-aircraft missiles. But to do this
right, in a single seat fighter, you need lots of practice. That's why
F-22 pilots will concentrate on only those two missions.

strategypage is one of the worst sites on the internet, all they do is
pass off public domain info and info gleaned from wire reports as
reporting. As bad as strategypage is, this particular article wasn't
_that_ bad and I wish you had quoted the rest of it:

"That's why F-22 pilots will concentrate on only those two missions.
This is not to say the F-22 can't perform ground support missions.
That's because the most common ground support job is dropping smart
bombs. Not a lot of special skills required for that.
 
To support this new police, F-22 pilots will only be recruited from the
F-15C community. This is the only air force warplane that specializes in
air to air combat. There will never be enough F-22s to replace the 500
F-15Cs currently in service, so the air force can pick the best pilots
for the new fighter."

The article makes clear that the f-22 can support ground troops and that
dropping PGMs from a distance(could be 60 miles using SDBs) isn't that
hard. Not as hard as defeating an enemy air defense so your kid
brother(JSF) can fly around and do its mission.

Post by Henry J Cobb
Since there is no air to air combat or fixed anti-air defenses in Iraq
and Afghanistan this is a dandy excuse for keeping the F-22 out of the
fight.

There is no sensible way to interpret this sentence.

Post by Henry J Cobb
But there is one more thing you could do with an "invisible" aircraft.
Patrol the borders without alerting Iran or Syria so you can catch their
support for the "insurgents".

You put scare quotes around invisible in order to cast doubt on the
F-22's stealth tech. Why did you put scare quotes around insurgents? Do
you believe that they are really just Girl Scouts selling cookies and
this is all just a big misunderstanding?

Post by Henry J Cobb
Pity the USAF stunted the Raptor's air to ground radar and other
sensors. So we're going to have thousands of more dead Americans while
we wait for lightning to strike twice.
-HJC

You have made this claim before. Each time I point out to you that the
USAF spent $11 billion adding air-to-ground abilities to the F-22's
radar. If you are going to keep claiming that the F-22's radar is
inadequate for a2g than please give a reasoned explanation.

[Henry J Cobb]

Post by Herbert Viola
You have made this claim before. Each time I point out to you that the
USAF spent $11 billion adding air-to-ground abilities to the F-22's
radar. If you are going to keep claiming that the F-22's radar is
inadequate for a2g than please give a reasoned explanation.

A2G is more than radar, especially against people and light vehicles in
cluttered, high traffic areas.

F-22s and F-15s have older processors for their radar than the Super
Hornet and the F-22 has to spoil stealth to carry an external IR pod,
because (unlike the electrical bug prone JSF) the F-22 doesn't have a
decent built in IR system.

Iraq is now (with the brit bugout) the classic case of of an open flank.
The Marines have made a better case for covering such a flank with
airpower, but their limited airpower is tied up supporting their grunts.

The JSF with its sensor fusion is still years (and many many dead GIs)
off, so why is the Air Force holding back?

-HJC

[Herbert Viola]

Post by Henry J Cobb

Post by Herbert Viola
You have made this claim before. Each time I point out to you that the
USAF spent $11 billion adding air-to-ground abilities to the F-22's
radar. If you are going to keep claiming that the F-22's radar is
inadequate for a2g than please give a reasoned explanation.

A2G is more than radar, especially against people and light vehicles in
cluttered, high traffic areas.

Be specific, what does the F-22 lack that your beloved Super Hornet
possess'?

Post by Henry J Cobb
F-22s and F-15s have older processors for their radar than the Super
Hornet

Other people in this group have explained this to you many times. The
processors in the F-22 are fast enough to display data in real time.
There would be no advantage to using a newer processor. Andreas works in
the avionics industry and he has explained to you several times why
putting a Pentium 4 in the F-22 is not the smart thing to do.

Post by Henry J Cobb
and the F-22 has to spoil stealth to carry an external IR pod,
because (unlike the electrical bug prone JSF) the F-22 doesn't have a
decent built in IR system.

You're beloved Super Hornet needs an external IR pod, as it also has no
internal IR sensors. The USAF plans to buy 2,000 JSFs with built in IR.
Whatever needs to be done with built in IR can be done by 2,000 planes.
There is no gaping IR hole in the USAF's plans for the future.

Post by Henry J Cobb
Iraq is now (with the brit bugout) the classic case of of an open flank.
The Marines have made a better case for covering such a flank with
airpower, but their limited airpower is tied up supporting their grunts.

No foreign power is going to invade what you are terming an exposed
flank. The problem with Iraq is that neither the Reps nor the Dems want
to cut through the Politically Correct bullshit and admit the problem
with Iraq is that Iraqis live there.

Post by Henry J Cobb
The JSF with its sensor fusion is still years (and many many dead GIs)
off, so why is the Air Force holding back?
-HJC

Holding back on what? I personally don't believe the absence of a
fighter-bomber with both radar and IR is going to kill anyone. Even if
I'm wrong, we have F-16 fighter-bombers with IR pods to do this.


Henry, you are taking the intellectual failure of the US civilian
leadership in Iraq and trying to use that as evidence of a military
failure on the part of the USDOD. The problem with Iraq is Bush has a
fantasy image in his head as to the goodness and decency of the Muslim
religion and the Arab people. Bush is convinced that if we just teach
the Iraqis how to use toilet paper they will suddenly jump up and live
as Westerners, with Western style political institutions. Bush is insane
and destined to become the most hated man in the history of his country.
Bush is wrong about the Iraqis, and he is wrong about the Mexicans. Some
cultures are just better than others, Bush can't understand that.

[Henry J Cobb]

Post by Herbert Viola
Be specific, what does the F-22 lack that your beloved Super Hornet
possess'?

ATFLIR for starters. A terrorist's worst enemy.

Post by Herbert Viola
You're beloved Super Hornet needs an external IR pod, as it also has no
internal IR sensors. The USAF plans to buy 2,000 JSFs with built in IR.
Whatever needs to be done with built in IR can be done by 2,000 planes.
There is no gaping IR hole in the USAF's plans for the future.

Yeah, only for today are they flying blind. Pity that we're at war today.

Post by Herbert Viola

Post by Henry J Cobb
Iraq is now (with the brit bugout) the classic case of of an open flank.
The Marines have made a better case for covering such a flank with
airpower, but their limited airpower is tied up supporting their grunts.

No foreign power is going to invade what you are terming an exposed
flank. The problem with Iraq is that neither the Reps nor the Dems want
to cut through the Politically Correct bullshit and admit the problem
with Iraq is that Iraqis live there.

Iran and Syria are providing troops, training and equipment through
Iraq's porous borders. Most of the suicide bombers in Iraq are not Iraqis.

Iraq is a giant killzone for American troops. Either bugout, fix those
open flanks or continue to bleed. It's not Stay The Course, it's Stay
The Hemorrhaging.

And in that context, what good is the F-22?

It can't be permanently stationed in Japan because the Japanese will
leak all its secrets to the Chinese.

It can't be sent to Iraq because the kind of war the USAF is determined
to fight is not the war we're fighting today.

And so it is left as an uber expensive home guard when 9/11 proved once
again that the USAF has neither the capability nor desire to actually
defend American soil.

-HJC

[Ed Rasimus]

Post by Henry J Cobb

Post by Herbert Viola
Be specific, what does the F-22 lack that your beloved Super Hornet
possess'?

ATFLIR for starters. A terrorist's worst enemy.

You don't need stealth and supercruise to counter a raghead in a
pickup truck. If you really are enamored of IR, then it's best applied
in the counter-insurgency role aboard rotary wing stuff, not even on a
Bug.

Post by Henry J Cobb

Post by Herbert Viola
You're beloved Super Hornet needs an external IR pod, as it also has no
internal IR sensors. The USAF plans to buy 2,000 JSFs with built in IR.
Whatever needs to be done with built in IR can be done by 2,000 planes.
There is no gaping IR hole in the USAF's plans for the future.

Yeah, only for today are they flying blind. Pity that we're at war today.

We were big into IR during YF-23 development. Fact is that it is only
one aspect of a self-carried sensor suite. It was to be a component of
LPI air/air data. It didn't integrate well, it required sacrifice to
the stealth shape and MOST IMPORTANTLY, it got overcome by the
development of the capability to integrate data from multiple
off-platform sources.

Post by Henry J Cobb

Post by Herbert Viola

Post by Henry J Cobb
Iraq is now (with the brit bugout) the classic case of of an open flank.
The Marines have made a better case for covering such a flank with
airpower, but their limited airpower is tied up supporting their grunts.

No foreign power is going to invade what you are terming an exposed
flank. The problem with Iraq is that neither the Reps nor the Dems want
to cut through the Politically Correct bullshit and admit the problem
with Iraq is that Iraqis live there.

Iran and Syria are providing troops, training and equipment through
Iraq's porous borders. Most of the suicide bombers in Iraq are not Iraqis.
Iraq is a giant killzone for American troops. Either bugout, fix those
open flanks or continue to bleed. It's not Stay The Course, it's Stay
The Hemorrhaging.

Do you really fail to recognize the significance of the number of
Americans who have died in Iraq? The sacrifice is noteworthy, but the
number is incredibly SMALL! More troops died in one die at Tarawa or
Iwo Jima. More died in one week during Tet. More die on a weekend in
the US in traffic accidents.

Post by Henry J Cobb
And in that context, what good is the F-22?
It can't be permanently stationed in Japan because the Japanese will
leak all its secrets to the Chinese.

Japan is a soverign nation. What gets stationed there is a result of
agreements between the nations.

You do, of course realize that US assets stationed at overseas
locations are not accessible to the host nation for technical
exploitation. Check the many places we had nuclear weapons and
first-tier technology during World War Cold and you'll get the
picture.

Post by Henry J Cobb
It can't be sent to Iraq because the kind of war the USAF is determined
to fight is not the war we're fighting today.

Ditto for battleships and ICBMs.

Post by Henry J Cobb
And so it is left as an uber expensive home guard when 9/11 proved once
again that the USAF has neither the capability nor desire to actually
defend American soil.

Fuck you. Strong message to follow.

Post by Henry J Cobb
-HJC

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[Herbert Viola]

Post by Henry J Cobb
Iran and Syria are providing troops, training and equipment through
Iraq's porous borders. Most of the suicide bombers in Iraq are not Iraqis.
Iraq is a giant killzone for American troops. Either bugout, fix those
open flanks or continue to bleed. It's not Stay The Course, it's Stay
The Hemorrhaging.
And in that context, what good is the F-22?
It can't be permanently stationed in Japan because the Japanese will
leak all its secrets to the Chinese.
It can't be sent to Iraq because the kind of war the USAF is determined
to fight is not the war we're fighting today.

It doesn't matter what the USDOD wants or does, no degree of military
competence is going to translate into successfully transforming the
Iraqis into de facto Westerners. No change in military strategy or
equipment will allow the USDOD to succeed in the task given to them, the
task of transforming Iraq into a Western style secular democracy. Its
time to stop blaming the USDOD for failing in a task that no military
could ever succeed in.

Post by Henry J Cobb
And so it is left as an uber expensive home guard when 9/11 proved once
again that the USAF has neither the capability nor desire to actually
defend American soil.
-HJC

I bet you regretted this as soon as you hit the enter button. You're not
that bad a guy, please reconsider this remark.

[Henry J Cobb]

Post by Herbert Viola
It doesn't matter what the USDOD wants or does, no degree of military
competence is going to translate into successfully transforming the
Iraqis into de facto Westerners. No change in military strategy or
equipment will allow the USDOD to succeed in the task given to them, the
task of transforming Iraq into a Western style secular democracy. Its
time to stop blaming the USDOD for failing in a task that no military
could ever succeed in.

Lots of people who are not western Europeans manage to go through their
entire lives without ending their lives with suicide attacks against
Americans. (9/11 on the other hand was organized in Germany.)

Operation Iraqi Liberation has transformed the Middle East into a
recruiting ground for terrorism.

If we were just fighting some Iraqi dead enders on their last legs, then
the current "surge" levels would be enough, but the deadliest attacks
against American troops in Iraq are planned and supported outside Iraq
and carried out by people who aren't from Iraq. (Most of the attacks by
Iraqis are directed against other Iraqis for political, religious or
sectarian differences.)

So far the USAF has been less effective against this terrorist railroad
than they were against the Ho Chi Minh trail.

Why are they holding back and why hasn't the United States Congress
redirected their budget to better use?

-HJC

[k***@gmail.com]

Post by Henry J Cobb
So far the USAF has been less effective against this terrorist railroad
than they were against the Ho Chi Minh trail.

Wow, this is such a bullshit statement that it boggles the mind!

But back to a more specific bit of idiocy: Your claim that the AF
doesn't have any IR capability fielded.

Uh, I had great IR capability in my old F-4E back in 1983 when we
started to carry the Pave Tack pod. And that was after many years of
low-light TV Pave Spike pods. Both used extensively during DS
(remember all those F-111s "tank plinking"? Pave Tack and GBU-12s).

And what do you think LANTIRN, SNIPER, and LITENING pods are? These
are all currently carried by F-15Es, F-16s, A-10s, B-52s, and B-1s.
All are IR targeting pods.

Do some research.

I agree with Ed; fuck off, you stupid twit.

Kirk

[Dan]

***@gmail.com wrote:
<snip>

stupid twit.

Kirk

I think that word is spelled with an a.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired