German Proximity Fuse Re-post

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

Rob Arndt

2011-12-20 19:45:28 UTC

Germany had a wide range of proximity fuses under development and/or
testing in the last year of the war:

Code Names & Descriptions:

BAD, Acoustic, under Graf Zeppelin Institute

ELKU (Elektro-Akoustic), and applied to PAPLITZ

FUCHS, Radio by AEG Berlin, intended for Hs-117, Hs-298, and other
missiles

ISEGRIMM, Electromagnetic by Orlich Institute of Danzig.

KAKADU, Radio by Donaulandische GmbH of Vienna. 3,000 were produced
for
the Hs-293- used Doppler effect.

KRANICH, Acoustic by Ruhrstahl AG of Brackwerde. Highly rated German
proximity fuse.

KUGELBLITZ, Radio by Patent Verwertungs Gesellschaft of Salzvurg.
Developed for the Rhinetocktor missile. Used Doppler-shift effect.

KUHGLOCKE, Electrostatic by Rhinemetall-Borsig. Intended for
missiles.
Prototypes only.

KUHGLOCKEN, Smaller version designed for AA shells.

LOTTE, Infrared for an unspecified missile- abandoned.

MARABU, Radio by Siemens-Halske under sub-contract of Rheinmetall AG.
Designed for the Hs-117, Hs-298, Rheintocktor and Wasserfall
missiles.
Firing trials.

MARDER, Radio by Orlich Institute of Danzig.

MEISE, Acoustic by Neumann & Borm of Berlin.

PAPLITZ, Infrared by Elektro Akoustic Institute at Namslau then at
Kiel. A.K.A. "ELKU". Developed for Hs-117 and Wasserfall. Test
firings.

PINSCHER, Radio by Orlich Institute of Danzig. Five prototypes.

PISTOLE, Photo-Electric, this project was incorporated into
WASSERMAUS.

ROULETTE, Infrared by Brickmann of Gera.

STIMMGABEL, Acoustic by the Graf Zeppelin Institute. Developed for
parachute-retarded bomb dropped over Allied bomber streams. Tested.

TRICHTER, Radio by Blaupunkt. Field tested.

WASSERMAUS, Photo-Electric, developed for the Wasserfall missile.

WIESEL, Radio by Orlich Institute of Danzig.

ZUNDER-19, Developed for 250kg bomb by Rheinmetall-Borsig. Started
1937. Cancelled 1943. Work continued into 1944.

Rob

p.s. Note: this list of 22 is NOT all-inclusive but taken from Hogg's
last GSW book index! They had many more!

Dan

2011-12-20 19:59:33 UTC

Permalink

Post by Rob Arndt
Germany had a wide range of proximity fuses under development and/or
BAD, Acoustic, under Graf Zeppelin Institute
ELKU (Elektro-Akoustic), and applied to PAPLITZ
FUCHS, Radio by AEG Berlin, intended for Hs-117, Hs-298, and other
missiles
ISEGRIMM, Electromagnetic by Orlich Institute of Danzig.
KAKADU, Radio by Donaulandische GmbH of Vienna. 3,000 were produced
for
the Hs-293- used Doppler effect.
KRANICH, Acoustic by Ruhrstahl AG of Brackwerde. Highly rated German
proximity fuse.
KUGELBLITZ, Radio by Patent Verwertungs Gesellschaft of Salzvurg.
Developed for the Rhinetocktor missile. Used Doppler-shift effect.
KUHGLOCKE, Electrostatic by Rhinemetall-Borsig. Intended for
missiles.
Prototypes only.
KUHGLOCKEN, Smaller version designed for AA shells.
LOTTE, Infrared for an unspecified missile- abandoned.
MARABU, Radio by Siemens-Halske under sub-contract of Rheinmetall AG.
Designed for the Hs-117, Hs-298, Rheintocktor and Wasserfall
missiles.
Firing trials.
MARDER, Radio by Orlich Institute of Danzig.
MEISE, Acoustic by Neumann& Borm of Berlin.
PAPLITZ, Infrared by Elektro Akoustic Institute at Namslau then at
Kiel. A.K.A. "ELKU". Developed for Hs-117 and Wasserfall. Test
firings.
PINSCHER, Radio by Orlich Institute of Danzig. Five prototypes.
PISTOLE, Photo-Electric, this project was incorporated into
WASSERMAUS.
ROULETTE, Infrared by Brickmann of Gera.
STIMMGABEL, Acoustic by the Graf Zeppelin Institute. Developed for
parachute-retarded bomb dropped over Allied bomber streams. Tested.
TRICHTER, Radio by Blaupunkt. Field tested.
WASSERMAUS, Photo-Electric, developed for the Wasserfall missile.
WIESEL, Radio by Orlich Institute of Danzig.
ZUNDER-19, Developed for 250kg bomb by Rheinmetall-Borsig. Started
1937. Cancelled 1943. Work continued into 1944.
Rob
p.s. Note: this list of 22 is NOT all-inclusive but taken from Hogg's
last GSW book index! They had many more!

Wow, under development. They did the Nazis no good at all. Go wave
your flag elsewhere.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Kreddible White

2011-12-20 22:52:21 UTC

Permalink

Wow, under development. They did the Nazis no good at all. Go wave
your flag elsewhere.

Go wave yours elsewhere schnozo

To the sounds of John Lennon's Immagine:

Immagine Hitler had one the war
Immagine there's no Shitrael
Its Easy if you try
Or Pislam too
Immagine all the White people living alone in peace like they
should...
No stupid holocrap to die for
Its easy if you try.

David E. Powell

2011-12-21 02:09:54 UTC

Permalink

Post by Kreddible White

Wow, under development. They did the Nazis no good at all. Go wave
your flag elsewhere.

Go wave yours elsewhere schnozo
Immagine Hitler had one the war
Immagine there's no Shitrael
Its Easy if you try
Or Pislam too
Immagine all the White people living alone in peace like they
should...
No stupid holocrap to die for
Its easy if you try.

Actually Hitler had a Division in the SS that was predominantly
Muslim. (Not a reflection on the whole faith, mind, he also had
volunteer divisions from several other occupied nations, which didn't
reflect the opinions of the majorities of people in those nations
either.)

And he killed a heck of a lot of white people, especially ones of
Slavic descent.

Eunometic

2011-12-20 21:42:02 UTC

Permalink

Most of these fuses were designed for use by missiles, which I think
its fair to say would have been vastly more effective than even
proxinty fuze equiped FLAK.

The original german proximity fuze development for FLAK shells was
suspended not because the vacuum tubes couldn't handle the shock of
luanch, they could, but simply because the circuit had a range of only
a few meters. The fuzes was working when the war began.

The vacuum tube used was a cold cathod thyratron. It's power
consumption was so low it could be powered by a capacitor and didn't
need a battery. A small antena on the nose of the shell (about the
radious of the shell)
was centrifuged outward as the shell ascended. As the antena whipped
through the air it sensed the static field disturbance and a small AC
current at the frequency of the shells rotation, this was filtered on
to the control anode (or grid) of the thyratron which fired and
discharged the capacitor into a fuse and detonated the shell.

Later on statistical analysis showed that even with heavy FLAK going
for a direct hit was more cost effective and overall more effective
than the trouble of manufacturing and setting precision time fuzes.
Becauss the electrostatic fuse was so very cheap and because it
incorporated a nose contact fuze it was realised it would be quite
effective.

The Germans were actually planning to introduce electrically
programmable fuzes similar to the ones used on their bombs and so the R
+D did continue.

A proper 'radar' style proximity fuze program was restated sometime
before the end of the war with shock resistant thermionic vacuum tubes
to supplement the cold cathode thyratrons.

The Germans had invented a rather outstanding battery called the
'molten salt battery' that turns out to be the battery of choice for
missiles and proximity fuses in almost all instances to this day.

The discovery of shock resistant diodes and thyroatrons in German time
delay bomb fuzes as well as a sample tube from the Oslo letter
actually intitiated the allied program!

Dean Markley

2011-12-21 12:20:21 UTC

Permalink

Post by Eunometic
Most of these fuses were designed for use by missiles, which I think
its fair to say would have been vastly more effective than even
proxinty fuze equiped FLAK.

Snipped to save electrons....

No it is not fair to say that. A proximity fuse is only useful if it
can be delivered within range of its target. There is no evidence
that the crude German first generation missiles would have been
accurate. And before you start harping "its German, it had to be!",
I'd refer you to real combat situations. Missiles were not more
effective than guns in Vietnam or the Middle East.

Eunometic

2011-12-20 21:51:54 UTC

Permalink

MAX-A was an active radar terminal homming system for the Wasserfall
missile. It also incorporated doppler promximity fuze. Max-P was a
version of Max-A without the magnetron transmitter, it instead homed
in on allied microwave radars such as H2S, H2X, Airborn Intercept
radars.

Daryl

2011-12-21 03:16:57 UTC

Permalink

Post by Eunometic
MAX-A was an active radar terminal homming system for the Wasserfall
missile. It also incorporated doppler promximity fuze. Max-P was a
version of Max-A without the magnetron transmitter, it instead homed
in on allied microwave radars such as H2S, H2X, Airborn Intercept
radars.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda. You are writing like it was in the
inventory. It never left the testing stage or was never proven
to be reliable.

--
http://tvmoviesforfree.com
for free movies and Nostalgic TV. Tons of Military shows and
programs.

Eunometic

2011-12-21 11:15:04 UTC

Permalink

Coulda, shoulda, woulda. You are writing like it was in the
inventory. It never left the testing stage or was never proven
to be reliable.

Blaupunkt's MAX-A (the active radar homming version) and MAX-P were
fully developed and tested by mounting in the nose of an aircraft,
they were lacking a missile. MAX-A (Aktive) incorporated a proximtiy
fuse via doppler shift detection.

Dan

2011-12-21 17:23:20 UTC

Permalink

Post by Eunometic

Post by Daryl

Coulda, shoulda, woulda. You are writing like it was in the
inventory. It never left the testing stage or was never proven
to be reliable.

Unless they were tested on the missiles in question they were never
fully tested, were they?

Dan, U.S.Air Force, retired

Jim Wilkins

2011-12-21 18:09:57 UTC

Permalink

Post by Dan

Post by Eunometic
...
Blaupunkt's MAX-A (the active radar homming version) and MAX-P were
fully developed and tested by mounting in the nose of an aircraft,
they were lacking a missile. MAX-A (Aktive) incorporated a proximtiy
fuse via doppler shift detection.

Unless they were tested on the missiles in question they were never
fully tested, were they?
Dan, U.S.Air Force, retired

The concepts are obvious and can be demonstrated by touching a radio tuner
circuit with a screwdriver, or the Theremin which a Russian invented in 1920
as a proximity sensor. Bats use the Doppler version.

The problem was making it survive firing in an artillery shell. The US
version was successfully tested in a bomb in May 1941 and in naval AA shells
in August 1942. It may have shot down an enemy plane in January 1943.
Production ran to 22 million, at a final cost of $18 apiece.

jsw

David E. Powell

2011-12-29 15:19:16 UTC

Permalink

Post by Jim Wilkins

Unless they were tested on the missiles in question they were never
fully tested, were they?
Dan, U.S.Air Force, retired

The concepts are obvious and can be demonstrated by touching a radio tuner
circuit with a screwdriver, or the Theremin which a Russian invented in 1920
as a proximity sensor. Bats use the Doppler version.
The problem was making it survive firing in an artillery shell. The US
version was successfully tested in a bomb in May 1941 and in naval AA shells
in August 1942. It may have shot down an enemy plane in January 1943.
Production ran to 22 million, at a final cost of $18 apiece.
jsw

I bet the US fuse could have been adapted to a 5-inch "Mickey Mouse"
rocket, had the need been there. Though even in the 1950s the US
interceptors with unguided rockets used volley tactics over the
proximity fuse approach.

In 1945 the need really wasn't there for allied planes to have that
gear. Most allied air to air stuff was by fighters that used guns
alone, and not many formations of heavy bombers to face. Over the
Pacific the Japanese came in large formations, but I am not sure a
proximity fused rocket would have been used there. The key in
intercepting the Japanese formations seemed to be speed on the part of
the fighters, and formations of fighters or medium bombers could be
harder to target with such a weapon than a packed formation of heavy
bombers.

Jim Wilkins

2011-12-29 16:48:14 UTC

Permalink

...

-I bet the US fuse could have been adapted to a 5-inch "Mickey Mouse"
-rocket, had the need been there. Though even in the 1950s the US
-interceptors with unguided rockets used volley tactics over the
-proximity fuse approach.

-In 1945 the need really wasn't there for allied planes to have that
-gear. Most allied air to air stuff was by fighters that used guns
-alone, and not many formations of heavy bombers to face. Over the
-Pacific the Japanese came in large formations, but I am not sure a
-proximity fused rocket would have been used there. The key in
-intercepting the Japanese formations seemed to be speed on the part of
-the fighters, and formations of fighters or medium bombers could be
-harder to target with such a weapon than a packed formation of heavy
-bombers.

The Germans were forced to use standoff weapons on masses of heavy enemy
bombers because their fighters couldn't survive within gun range long
enough, even the Me-163 according to Ziegler. We had no such problem and
didn't need their desperate attempted solutions. If we had, similar guidance
servo mechanisms had been developed and tested in our antisub homing
torpedos.

Our late-war problem was knocking down Kamikazes with stiff controls that
kept them flying straight after the pilot had been killed. (from Sakai or
Hirokoshi??). For that we had the proximity fuze in a 5" shell.

jsw