Rob Arndt
2005-06-19 16:12:16 UTC
Discussion:
(too old to reply)
tw
2005-06-21 13:48:23 UTC
Post by Rob Arndt
Anyone have any information on this British postwar jet?
http://www.testpilot.ru/uk/fairey/delta/3/img/fd3_2.jpg
As far as I know - Paper development of the Fairey FD2 (a truly beautifulAnyone have any information on this British postwar jet?
http://www.testpilot.ru/uk/fairey/delta/3/img/fd3_2.jpg
creation) which held the speed record for a couple of weeks and had a
droopable Concord-esqu nose. Cancelled in the notorious 1966 defence review
white paper. I THINK the FD3 was supposed to compete with the Lightning and
some scary rocket-powered Hawker creation for the requirement that the
Frightning actually got. The drawing *seems* to show firestreaks (or are
they too big?) under the wings which woudl put it in the right sort of time
frame
Alan Dicey
2005-06-21 20:14:48 UTC
Post by tw
As far as I know - Paper development of the Fairey FD2 (a truly beautiful
creation) which held the speed record for a couple of weeks and had a
droopable Concord-esqu nose. Cancelled in the notorious 1966 defence review
white paper. I THINK the FD3 was supposed to compete with the Lightning and
some scary rocket-powered Hawker creation for the requirement that the
Frightning actually got. The drawing *seems* to show firestreaks (or are
they too big?) under the wings which woudl put it in the right sort of time
frame
One of numerous submissions to Specification F.155T for a "Day-NightAs far as I know - Paper development of the Fairey FD2 (a truly beautiful
creation) which held the speed record for a couple of weeks and had a
droopable Concord-esqu nose. Cancelled in the notorious 1966 defence review
white paper. I THINK the FD3 was supposed to compete with the Lightning and
some scary rocket-powered Hawker creation for the requirement that the
Frightning actually got. The drawing *seems* to show firestreaks (or are
they too big?) under the wings which woudl put it in the right sort of time
frame
High Altitude Fighter Aircraft" in 1955, the picture shows an in-house
artists impression of the Fairey "Delta III". Capable of Mach 1.9 at
36000 ft *without reheat*, Mach 2.3 with. A mixed-power design, it
could reach 90,000 ft in 2.5 minutes using both reheat and rockets,
75,000 ft in 1.5 minutes on reheat alone. The airframe was supposedly
capable of Mach 3, once suitably developed engines were installed.
The spec was driven by a fear of Russian bombers attacking at high
speeds from up to 80,000 ft. All the submissions employed mixed power
apart from EE who proposed a development of the P.1 Lightning prototype.
The Lightning itself is somewhat earlier, to Specification F.23/49
"Interceptor Fighter with Supersonic Performance"
The missiles in the artists impression are supposed to be Red Hebe, a
Semi-active radar homer developed from Red Dean.
It was chosen for production, but the "Sandystorm" Defence White Paper
of April 1957 cancelled all manned fighters except Lightning.
Sources:
"British Secret Projects: Jet Fighters since 1950", Tony Buttler,
Midland Publishing, 2000. ISBN 1-85780-095-8. It is on the cover.
"Project Cancelled", Derek Wood, Tri-Service Press, 1990
tw
2005-06-22 08:34:17 UTC
Post by Alan Dicey
High Altitude Fighter Aircraft" in 1955, the picture shows an in-house
artists impression of the Fairey "Delta III". Capable of Mach 1.9 at
36000 ft *without reheat*, Mach 2.3 with. A mixed-power design, it
could reach 90,000 ft in 2.5 minutes using both reheat and rockets,
75,000 ft in 1.5 minutes on reheat alone. The airframe was supposedly
capable of Mach 3, once suitably developed engines were installed.
The spec was driven by a fear of Russian bombers attacking at high
speeds from up to 80,000 ft. All the submissions employed mixed power
apart from EE who proposed a development of the P.1 Lightning prototype.
The Lightning itself is somewhat earlier, to Specification F.23/49
"Interceptor Fighter with Supersonic Performance"
The missiles in the artists impression are supposed to be Red Hebe, a
Semi-active radar homer developed from Red Dean.
It was chosen for production, but the "Sandystorm" Defence White Paper
of April 1957 cancelled all manned fighters except Lightning.
"British Secret Projects: Jet Fighters since 1950", Tony Buttler,
Midland Publishing, 2000. ISBN 1-85780-095-8. It is on the cover.
"Project Cancelled", Derek Wood, Tri-Service Press, 1990
Ta for that Alan - especially info about the missiles. How the bloody hellPost by tw
As far as I know - Paper development of the Fairey FD2 (a truly beautiful
creation) which held the speed record for a couple of weeks and had a
droopable Concord-esqu nose. Cancelled in the notorious 1966 defence review
white paper. I THINK the FD3 was supposed to compete with the Lightning and
some scary rocket-powered Hawker creation for the requirement that the
Frightning actually got. The drawing *seems* to show firestreaks (or are
they too big?) under the wings which woudl put it in the right sort of time
frame
One of numerous submissions to Specification F.155T for a "Day-NightAs far as I know - Paper development of the Fairey FD2 (a truly beautiful
creation) which held the speed record for a couple of weeks and had a
droopable Concord-esqu nose. Cancelled in the notorious 1966 defence review
white paper. I THINK the FD3 was supposed to compete with the Lightning and
some scary rocket-powered Hawker creation for the requirement that the
Frightning actually got. The drawing *seems* to show firestreaks (or are
they too big?) under the wings which woudl put it in the right sort of time
frame
High Altitude Fighter Aircraft" in 1955, the picture shows an in-house
artists impression of the Fairey "Delta III". Capable of Mach 1.9 at
36000 ft *without reheat*, Mach 2.3 with. A mixed-power design, it
could reach 90,000 ft in 2.5 minutes using both reheat and rockets,
75,000 ft in 1.5 minutes on reheat alone. The airframe was supposedly
capable of Mach 3, once suitably developed engines were installed.
The spec was driven by a fear of Russian bombers attacking at high
speeds from up to 80,000 ft. All the submissions employed mixed power
apart from EE who proposed a development of the P.1 Lightning prototype.
The Lightning itself is somewhat earlier, to Specification F.23/49
"Interceptor Fighter with Supersonic Performance"
The missiles in the artists impression are supposed to be Red Hebe, a
Semi-active radar homer developed from Red Dean.
It was chosen for production, but the "Sandystorm" Defence White Paper
of April 1957 cancelled all manned fighters except Lightning.
"British Secret Projects: Jet Fighters since 1950", Tony Buttler,
Midland Publishing, 2000. ISBN 1-85780-095-8. It is on the cover.
"Project Cancelled", Derek Wood, Tri-Service Press, 1990
did I get 1966 for the year of Sandy's review?! I can only claiming a
massive brain seizure or sloppy typing..
Rob Arndt
2005-06-22 10:54:28 UTC
Thanks for the info and here's a little something on the Red Dean and
proposed Red Hebe missile:
http://www.skomer.u-net.com/projects/reddean.htm
Rob
proposed Red Hebe missile:
http://www.skomer.u-net.com/projects/reddean.htm
Rob
Alan Dicey
2005-06-22 11:39:53 UTC
Post by tw
Ta for that Alan - especially info about the missiles. How the bloody hell
did I get 1966 for the year of Sandy's review?! I can only claiming a
massive brain seizure or sloppy typing..
TSR-2 cancellation? That was 1965 . . . close enough (for GovernmentTa for that Alan - especially info about the missiles. How the bloody hell
did I get 1966 for the year of Sandy's review?! I can only claiming a
massive brain seizure or sloppy typing..
work :-) )
Alan Dicey
2005-06-22 13:01:31 UTC
Post by Alan Dicey
"British Secret Projects: Jet Fighters since 1950", Tony Buttler,
Midland Publishing, 2000. ISBN 1-85780-095-8. It is on the cover.
"British Secret Projects: Jet Fighters since 1950", Tony Buttler,
Midland Publishing, 2000. ISBN 1-85780-095-8. It is on the cover.
Tony Buttler's book:
Loading Image...
And the site itself has more information than I posted, and a facility
to translate the Russian text into English
http://www.translate.ru/url/tran_url.asp?lang=ru&direction=65538&template=Default&autotranslate=&transliterate=true&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etestpilot%2Eru%2Fuk%2Ffairey%2Fdelta%2F3%2Findex%2Ehtm
The text of the article bears a strong resemblence to Tony Buttlers. The
pictures are certainly scanned from his book - the framing, cutting off
the noseprobe on one picture and missile fins on the other is identical.
b***@yahoo.com
2005-06-22 09:09:31 UTC
Post by tw
creation) which held the speed record for a couple of weeks and had a
droopable Concord-esqu nose. Cancelled in the notorious 1966 defence review
white paper. I THINK the FD3 was supposed to compete with the Lightning and
some scary rocket-powered Hawker creation for the requirement that the
Frightning actually got. The drawing *seems* to show firestreaks (or are
they too big?) under the wings which woudl put it in the right sort of time
frame
Interesting design, looks similar the the Canadian Arrow.Post by Rob Arndt
Anyone have any information on this British postwar jet?
http://www.testpilot.ru/uk/fairey/delta/3/img/fd3_2.jpg
As far as I know - Paper development of the Fairey FD2 (a truly beautifulAnyone have any information on this British postwar jet?
http://www.testpilot.ru/uk/fairey/delta/3/img/fd3_2.jpg
creation) which held the speed record for a couple of weeks and had a
droopable Concord-esqu nose. Cancelled in the notorious 1966 defence review
white paper. I THINK the FD3 was supposed to compete with the Lightning and
some scary rocket-powered Hawker creation for the requirement that the
Frightning actually got. The drawing *seems* to show firestreaks (or are
they too big?) under the wings which woudl put it in the right sort of time
frame
David
Andrew Robert Breen
2005-06-23 15:23:45 UTC
Post by tw
creation) which held the speed record for a couple of weeks and had a
droopable Concord-esqu nose. Cancelled in the notorious 1966 defence review
white paper. I THINK the FD3 was supposed to compete with the Lightning and
some scary rocket-powered Hawker creation for the requirement that the
Frightning actually got. The drawing *seems* to show firestreaks (or are
they too big?) under the wings which woudl put it in the right sort of time
frame
The missiles for the Delta 3 were Vickers Red Dean.Post by Rob Arndt
Anyone have any information on this British postwar jet?
http://www.testpilot.ru/uk/fairey/delta/3/img/fd3_2.jpg
As far as I know - Paper development of the Fairey FD2 (a truly beautifulAnyone have any information on this British postwar jet?
http://www.testpilot.ru/uk/fairey/delta/3/img/fd3_2.jpg
creation) which held the speed record for a couple of weeks and had a
droopable Concord-esqu nose. Cancelled in the notorious 1966 defence review
white paper. I THINK the FD3 was supposed to compete with the Lightning and
some scary rocket-powered Hawker creation for the requirement that the
Frightning actually got. The drawing *seems* to show firestreaks (or are
they too big?) under the wings which woudl put it in the right sort of time
frame
The whole thing is well-described in the fighter volume British Secret
Projects. Seems that quite a bit of the design thinking from the Delta
3 fed into the Avro Arrow.
--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Who dies with the most toys wins" (Gary Barnes)
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Who dies with the most toys wins" (Gary Barnes)
Ken Duffey
2005-06-23 15:42:15 UTC
I love all this British secret code names - Red this and Blue that.
Wasn't there also a 'Green' series ??
When the Tornado F3 first flew, the Marconi Foxhunter radar was having
development problems, so they inserted concrete ballast in its place.
The pilots quickly nicknamed it 'Blue Circle' radar - the name of a
well-known UK cement maker !!
Ken
Wasn't there also a 'Green' series ??
When the Tornado F3 first flew, the Marconi Foxhunter radar was having
development problems, so they inserted concrete ballast in its place.
The pilots quickly nicknamed it 'Blue Circle' radar - the name of a
well-known UK cement maker !!
Ken
Post by Andrew Robert Breen
The whole thing is well-described in the fighter volume British Secret
Projects. Seems that quite a bit of the design thinking from the Delta
3 fed into the Avro Arrow.
Post by tw
creation) which held the speed record for a couple of weeks and had a
droopable Concord-esqu nose. Cancelled in the notorious 1966 defence review
white paper. I THINK the FD3 was supposed to compete with the Lightning and
some scary rocket-powered Hawker creation for the requirement that the
Frightning actually got. The drawing *seems* to show firestreaks (or are
they too big?) under the wings which woudl put it in the right sort of time
frame
The missiles for the Delta 3 were Vickers Red Dean.Post by Rob Arndt
Anyone have any information on this British postwar jet?
http://www.testpilot.ru/uk/fairey/delta/3/img/fd3_2.jpg
As far as I know - Paper development of the Fairey FD2 (a truly beautifulAnyone have any information on this British postwar jet?
http://www.testpilot.ru/uk/fairey/delta/3/img/fd3_2.jpg
creation) which held the speed record for a couple of weeks and had a
droopable Concord-esqu nose. Cancelled in the notorious 1966 defence review
white paper. I THINK the FD3 was supposed to compete with the Lightning and
some scary rocket-powered Hawker creation for the requirement that the
Frightning actually got. The drawing *seems* to show firestreaks (or are
they too big?) under the wings which woudl put it in the right sort of time
frame
The whole thing is well-described in the fighter volume British Secret
Projects. Seems that quite a bit of the design thinking from the Delta
3 fed into the Avro Arrow.
Rob Arndt
2005-06-23 16:19:09 UTC
Ken,
The British Thunderbird SAMs used "Green" names for their radars:
http://members.tripod.com/krh30/36reg/id28.htm
Rob
The British Thunderbird SAMs used "Green" names for their radars:
http://members.tripod.com/krh30/36reg/id28.htm
Rob
Glenfiddich
2005-06-23 18:28:57 UTC
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:42:15 +0100, Ken Duffey
Post by Ken Duffey
I love all this British secret code names - Red this and Blue that.
Wasn't there also a 'Green' series ??
Yup - and Orange.I love all this British secret code names - Red this and Blue that.
Wasn't there also a 'Green' series ??
Alan Dicey
2005-06-23 19:00:02 UTC
Post by Ken Duffey
I love all this British secret code names - Red this and Blue that.
Wasn't there also a 'Green' series ??
A comprehensive guide from the site referenced upthread for Red Dean:I love all this British secret code names - Red this and Blue that.
Wasn't there also a 'Green' series ??
http://www.skomer.u-net.com/projects/colour.htm
Andrew Robert Breen
2005-06-23 19:53:26 UTC
Post by Ken Duffey
I love all this British secret code names - Red this and Blue that.
Wasn't there also a 'Green' series ??
There were a lot of them. Violet Club and Yellow Sun were bothI love all this British secret code names - Red this and Blue that.
Wasn't there also a 'Green' series ??
"special weapons" = nukes, and there were other colour series.
Post by Ken Duffey
When the Tornado F3 first flew, the Marconi Foxhunter radar was having
development problems, so they inserted concrete ballast in its place.
The pilots quickly nicknamed it 'Blue Circle' radar - the name of a
well-known UK cement maker !!
Yup. The real radars in the sequence were "Blue Vixen" (SHAR-2) and one IWhen the Tornado F3 first flew, the Marconi Foxhunter radar was having
development problems, so they inserted concrete ballast in its place.
The pilots quickly nicknamed it 'Blue Circle' radar - the name of a
well-known UK cement maker !!
forget for the Tonka.
There is a list out there. Try searching on some combination of
Red Dean + Blue Steel + Violet Club + Yellow Sun and you'll
get there.
--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock
and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas)
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock
and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas)