Last Operational BLU-82 "Daisy Cutter" Dropped

[d***@hotmail.com]

See:

http://www.strategypage.com/military_photos/20080721233659.aspx

Any good BLU-82 stories out there?

[David E. Powell]

Post by d***@hotmail.com
http://www.strategypage.com/military_photos/20080721233659.aspx
Any good BLU-82 stories out there?

No plans to make more? What if they need them in the future?

[d***@hotmail.com]

Post by David E. Powell

Post by d***@hotmail.com
http://www.strategypage.com/military_photos/20080721233659.aspx
Any good BLU-82 stories out there?

No plans to make more? What if they need them in the future?

MOAB is set to replace BLU-82:

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/afweapons/l/blmoab.htm

[frank]

Thing is MOAB scares the hell out of our allies and looks like a mini
nuke, which we no longer have.

You also need something like a C-130 to drop them, then again, same
with the Daisy Cutter. Would be nice if you could put something like
that on carrier aircraft, but those Navy weenies can't carry real
weapons.

Heck, they need boat drivers to deliver their cruise missiles.

[guy]

Post by frank
Thing is MOAB scares the hell out of our allies and looks like a mini
nuke, which we no longer have.
You also need something like a C-130 to drop them, then again, same
with the Daisy Cutter. Would be nice if you could put something like
that on carrier aircraft, but those Navy weenies can't carry real
weapons.
Heck, they need boat drivers to deliver their cruise missiles.

Just out of interest how is the BLU-82 carried and dropped by an
AC-130?

Guy

[Typhoon502]

Post by guy

Post by frank
Thing is MOAB scares the hell out of our allies and looks like a mini
nuke, which we no longer have.
You also need something like a C-130 to drop them, then again, same
with the Daisy Cutter. Would be nice if you could put something like
that on carrier aircraft, but those Navy weenies can't carry real
weapons.
Heck, they need boat drivers to deliver their cruise missiles.

Just out of interest how is the BLU-82 carried and dropped by an
AC-130?

Not an AC-130, the back of those is all filled up with noisy things
and joysticks. The BLU-82 is...was...carried by the MC-130, which has
a cargo-configured fuselage but it also has the advanced navigation
and countermeasures needed to operate in high-threat environments.

[guy]

Post by Typhoon502

Post by guy

Post by frank
Thing is MOAB scares the hell out of our allies and looks like a mini
nuke, which we no longer have.
You also need something like a C-130 to drop them, then again, same
with the Daisy Cutter. Would be nice if you could put something like
that on carrier aircraft, but those Navy weenies can't carry real
weapons.
Heck, they need boat drivers to deliver their cruise missiles.

Just out of interest how is the BLU-82 carried and dropped by an
AC-130?

Not an AC-130, the back of those is all filled up with noisy things
and joysticks. The BLU-82 is...was...carried by the MC-130, which has
a cargo-configured fuselage but it also has the advanced navigation
and countermeasures needed to operate in high-threat environments.

Where do you hang it from? or does it get dropped out the back?

Guy

[Dan]

Post by guy

Post by Typhoon502

Post by guy

Post by frank
Thing is MOAB scares the hell out of our allies and looks like a mini
nuke, which we no longer have.
You also need something like a C-130 to drop them, then again, same
with the Daisy Cutter. Would be nice if you could put something like
that on carrier aircraft, but those Navy weenies can't carry real
weapons.
Heck, they need boat drivers to deliver their cruise missiles.

Just out of interest how is the BLU-82 carried and dropped by an
AC-130?

Not an AC-130, the back of those is all filled up with noisy things
and joysticks. The BLU-82 is...was...carried by the MC-130, which has
a cargo-configured fuselage but it also has the advanced navigation
and countermeasures needed to operate in high-threat environments.

Where do you hang it from? or does it get dropped out the back?
Guy

It was on a pallet and shoved out the back. The floor has roller strips.

Dan. U.S. Air Force, retired

[frank]

They're on a pallet that looks like a sled, Whole thing goes out the
back. There is a chute to stabilize it.

There were videos that were shown on the TV channel, so wouldn't be
surprised if it shows up on U tube.

I believe they tested one and then dropped it operationally.

Also, at the same time, there were bunker busters that they put
together. I seem to remember it was old Naval cannon, they added fins,
problem was pouring the explosive in it as it had to cool. They wanted
them operational in Desert Storm, there was a bit of a rush as there
WAS a war on. There were problems with what could carry them as their
length made rotation on take off a bit of a problem. They put them on
F-111s, but since the F-111s are retired, not sure what they're doing
with them. Basic concept was the hard steel of the barrel would punch
through the surface to the underground bunker then detonate. We used a
few of those and Saddam surrendered.

[George Ruch]

Post by frank
Also, at the same time, there were bunker busters that they put
together. I seem to remember it was old Naval cannon, they added fins,
problem was pouring the explosive in it as it had to cool. They wanted
them operational in Desert Storm, there was a bit of a rush as there
WAS a war on. There were problems with what could carry them as their
length made rotation on take off a bit of a problem. They put them on
F-111s, but since the F-111s are retired, not sure what they're doing
with them. Basic concept was the hard steel of the barrel would punch
through the surface to the underground bunker then detonate. We used a
few of those and Saddam surrendered.

Sounds like the GBU-28, deployed for use on the F-111F during DS.
Concept to delivery in 17 days, built around an 8 inch howitzer
barrels.
Here's the write-up on GlobalSecurity. Apparently, it's still in
service for the F-15E.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/gbu-28.htm

[frank]

A bit off topic but I think the largest 'weapon' devised was Minor
Chord or Major Scale. It was part of a series of tests by DNA at White
Sands in the early mid 80s. We sat on the top of our site about 25
miles away. As usual, the Army was late. Our NCOIC made sure we had no
binoculars and cameras, but as usual the press did at the site, go
figure.

Anyway, what it was was 600 tons, yeah tons, of a slurry like what was
used in the Oklahoma City blast, in a ball elevated by huge cranes.
There may be still photos of this on the Albuquerque Journal
newspaper.

I left before the next test, they were thinking of 1,200 tons.

Rationale was to test scaled down items against nuclear blast.

One of them was the old MX missile transporter that was to run around
on the ground then hunker down in a blast.

It was pretty interesting, you saw the blast as a flash of light, then
you could see the shockwave go out over the desert. We actually felt
the overpressure. And heard the noise, press reports at the time gave
timings of when the blast was heard at different times in the state of
New Mexico. Just like Hollywood.

I remember at the time thinking, Damn, and this isn't a real nuke....

[Les Matheson]

It isn't.
I said I was planning an AC-130 mission and knew about the Talon's (MC-130E) TOT. All
the SOF assets (ground and air) shared a planning facility, and we were always running
into other mission planners.

Never said I dropped one from an AC-130.

Les

Post by guy

Post by frank
Thing is MOAB scares the hell out of our allies and looks like a mini
nuke, which we no longer have.
You also need something like a C-130 to drop them, then again, same
with the Daisy Cutter. Would be nice if you could put something like
that on carrier aircraft, but those Navy weenies can't carry real
weapons.
Heck, they need boat drivers to deliver their cruise missiles.

Just out of interest how is the BLU-82 carried and dropped by an
AC-130?
Guy

[Dean A. Markley]

Post by frank
Thing is MOAB scares the hell out of our allies and looks like a mini
nuke, which we no longer have.
You also need something like a C-130 to drop them, then again, same
with the Daisy Cutter. Would be nice if you could put something like
that on carrier aircraft, but those Navy weenies can't carry real
weapons.
Heck, they need boat drivers to deliver their cruise missiles.

Why would our allies be scared of MOAB? We aren't planning on using on
them, after all....

[eatfastnoodle]

Post by frank
Thing is MOAB scares the hell out of our allies and looks like a mini
nuke, which we no longer have.
You also need something like a C-130 to drop them, then again, same
with the Daisy Cutter. Would be nice if you could put something like
that on carrier aircraft, but those Navy weenies can't carry real
weapons.
Heck, they need boat drivers to deliver their cruise missiles.

Why would our allies be scared of MOAB?  We aren't planning on using on
them, after  all....

didn't Russian test a "father of all bombs" that they claimed to be 4
times more powerful than MOAB, aka the "mother of all bombs", a short
while ago? Why didn't the USAF test something more powerful, just for
vanity purposes? I always think the macho-macho soldiers have to have
the biggest, baddest weapon of all kind.

[frank]

Part of the problem is you have to be able to carry it. You start
getting cargo aircraft, you start getting lower end of survivability.
People forget how many cargo planes we lost in Vietnam.

Plus you don't always need bigger bombs. I'd bet most of what we've
dropped is the old Mk-82 500 lb size. We're much better in accuracy.

Saddam did the same thing, he made stuff bigger, not better, in fact a
lot of his improvements didn't work. From rockets to some of the
cannon stuff he was trying.

Made great instant LZs though. There are probably shots on the web
somewhere.

[Dan]

Post by frank
Part of the problem is you have to be able to carry it. You start
getting cargo aircraft, you start getting lower end of survivability.
People forget how many cargo planes we lost in Vietnam.
Plus you don't always need bigger bombs. I'd bet most of what we've
dropped is the old Mk-82 500 lb size. We're much better in accuracy.
Saddam did the same thing, he made stuff bigger, not better, in fact a
lot of his improvements didn't work. From rockets to some of the
cannon stuff he was trying.
Made great instant LZs though. There are probably shots on the web
somewhere.

They do have limited uses, making LZ as you say, but they can be used
for psychological purposes. In Desert Storm it was quite effective
against less than top line troops. The areas in question weren't covered
by anti-aircraft equipment so the risk was relatively low.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[eatfastnoodle]

Post by frank
Part of the problem is you have to be able to carry it. You start
getting cargo aircraft, you start getting lower end of survivability.
People forget how many cargo planes we lost in Vietnam.
Plus you don't always need bigger bombs. I'd bet most of what we've
dropped is the old Mk-82 500 lb size. We're much better in accuracy.
Saddam did the same thing, he made stuff bigger, not better, in fact a
lot of his improvements didn't work. From rockets to some of the
cannon stuff he was trying.
Made great instant LZs though. There are probably shots on the web
somewhere.

It's useful for psychological warfare, I remember reading somewhere
about the relatively ineffectiveness displayed by ground attack planes
like F-16, F-18 during the Afghan war, they could drop bombs, but
there wasn't that many targets for the bomb to be dropped on, giant
bombers like B-52, although much old, could carry massive bombs like
MOAB, which would produce such devastating power that it could
effectively shock Taliban fighters into surrender. Plus, although the
cold war ended 20 years ago, the tendency of Americans in general, US
military in particular to instinctively view anything from foreign
countries that's bigger, more powerful, badder or faster as a threat
to the dominance of American power, Japan took away the title of
fastest supercomputer for a few years, which totally energized
American high performance computing community, an sign of relief
wasn't breathed until American super computer took the title back.
Bush's appeal to change the direction of NASA after Columbia disaster
came on the backdrop of China's successful launch of human into space,
which America did decades ago, but nevertheless put a great deal of
competitive pressure on the US. I'm actually surprised to see nobody
in Pentagon just jumped up to his desk, fist in the air, feet stomping
his keyboard and screaming "We must have a bigger one"

[tankfixer]

In article <45f8b906-6bca-48fd-be6d-72196fd10f50
@z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com>, ***@gmail.com says...

Post by eatfastnoodle

Post by frank
Part of the problem is you have to be able to carry it. You start
getting cargo aircraft, you start getting lower end of survivability.
People forget how many cargo planes we lost in Vietnam.
Plus you don't always need bigger bombs. I'd bet most of what we've
dropped is the old Mk-82 500 lb size. We're much better in accuracy.
Saddam did the same thing, he made stuff bigger, not better, in fact a
lot of his improvements didn't work. From rockets to some of the
cannon stuff he was trying.
Made great instant LZs though. There are probably shots on the web
somewhere.

It's useful for psychological warfare, I remember reading somewhere
about the relatively ineffectiveness displayed by ground attack planes
like F-16, F-18 during the Afghan war, they could drop bombs, but
there wasn't that many targets for the bomb to be dropped on, giant
bombers like B-52, although much old, could carry massive bombs like
MOAB, which would produce such devastating power that it could
effectively shock Taliban fighters into surrender.

The benifit of the B52 was it could orbit with a load of GBU and be on
call for hours at a time.
--
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things.
The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic
feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.

The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety,
is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
made so and kept so by the exertions of much better men than himself.

John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873) English economist and philosopher.

[Daryl Hunt]

"tankfixer" <***@gmail.comm> wrote in message news:***@nntp.earthlink.net...
In article <45f8b906-6bca-48fd-be6d-72196fd10f50
@z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com>, ***@gmail.com says...

Post by tankfixer

Post by eatfastnoodle
bombers like B-52, although much old, could carry massive bombs like
MOAB, which would produce such devastating power that it could
effectively shock Taliban fighters into surrender.

It usually dropped 500lb bombs and a lot of them at one time. Bombs dumber
than a box of rocks. But carpet bombing Armor causes the armor you left
alone to pop the lids and surrender quickly.

Post by tankfixer
The benifit of the B52 was it could orbit with a load of GBU and be on
call for hours at a time.

Nope, Nope and Nope, The Buff was used for carpet bombing with dumber than
a box of rocks iron bombs. Most left over from Vietnam. And unless you
have seen the carnage that a Buff can do with that setup then you will never
truly understand Hell.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

[tankfixer]

Post by tankfixer
In article <45f8b906-6bca-48fd-be6d-72196fd10f50
@z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com>, ***@gmail.com says...

Post by tankfixer

Post by eatfastnoodle
bombers like B-52, although much old, could carry massive bombs like
MOAB, which would produce such devastating power that it could
effectively shock Taliban fighters into surrender.

It usually dropped 500lb bombs and a lot of them at one time. Bombs dumber
than a box of rocks. But carpet bombing Armor causes the armor you left
alone to pop the lids and surrender quickly.

They did do that too.
But you must not have been keeping up with things.

Post by tankfixer

Post by tankfixer
The benifit of the B52 was it could orbit with a load of GBU and be on
call for hours at a time.

Nope, Nope and Nope, The Buff was used for carpet bombing with dumber than
a box of rocks iron bombs. Most left over from Vietnam. And unless you
have seen the carnage that a Buff can do with that setup then you will never
truly understand Hell.

I would invite you to actually learn about how the USAF is using the
B-52 in Afghanistan.
--
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things.
The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic
feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.

The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety,
is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
made so and kept so by the exertions of much better men than himself.

John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873) English economist and philosopher.

[frank]

Post by tankfixer

Post by tankfixer
The benifit of the B52 was it could orbit with a load of GBU and be on
call for hours at a time.

Nope, Nope and Nope,  The Buff was used for carpet bombing with dumber than
a box of rocks iron bombs.  Most left over from Vietnam.  And unless you
have seen the carnage that a Buff can do with that setup then you will never
truly understand Hell.

I would invite you to actually learn about how the USAF is using the
B-52 in Afghanistan.

B-1 is used more as a bomb truck, one 500 lb Mk 82 on call as needed.
Not sure what accuracy on B-52 was or if it was as good at the B-1,
they might have upgraded, but they were playing SAC way back when.

MOAB was solely rolled off of a C-130. Nobody else could carry it.
Which limits where and how you can use it. Some of the old
thermonuclear bombs look huge in the museums but they weren't that
heavy all things considered. In any case you didn't carry a lot of
them. Not like when you'd chuck a dozen or more nukes in a B-1 and
have them tour the Soviet Union. And 100 Kt was the lower yield.

From what is covered in the news, it looks like most of the stuff that
is dropped is in the 500 lb range. They're cheaper, (roughly $500
each), you can load up a lot of them. Vast majority of targets in Iraq
now aren't hardened. Ditto Afghanistan.

I'd think by now all the targets would avoid anything that would set
themselves up for a B-52 carpet bombing strike.

[tankfixer]

In article <fcddea7c-966b-48ce-bf47-b7ef54fa1502
@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, ***@netscape.net says...

Post by frank

Post by tankfixer

Post by tankfixer
The benifit of the B52 was it could orbit with a load of GBU and be on
call for hours at a time.

Nope, Nope and Nope,  The Buff was used for carpet bombing with dumber than
a box of rocks iron bombs.  Most left over from Vietnam.  And unless you
have seen the carnage that a Buff can do with that setup then you will never
truly understand Hell.

I would invite you to actually learn about how the USAF is using the
B-52 in Afghanistan.

B-1 is used more as a bomb truck, one 500 lb Mk 82 on call as needed.
Not sure what accuracy on B-52 was or if it was as good at the B-1,
they might have upgraded, but they were playing SAC way back when.

Both carried PGM for most mission like you describe.

Post by frank
MOAB was solely rolled off of a C-130. Nobody else could carry it.
Which limits where and how you can use it. Some of the old
thermonuclear bombs look huge in the museums but they weren't that
heavy all things considered. In any case you didn't carry a lot of
them. Not like when you'd chuck a dozen or more nukes in a B-1 and
have them tour the Soviet Union. And 100 Kt was the lower yield.
From what is covered in the news, it looks like most of the stuff that
is dropped is in the 500 lb range. They're cheaper, (roughly $500
each), you can load up a lot of them. Vast majority of targets in Iraq
now aren't hardened. Ditto Afghanistan.
I'd think by now all the targets would avoid anything that would set
themselves up for a B-52 carpet bombing strike.

There were mass drops in Afghanistan when the Taliban was foolish enough
to present a target.
--
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things.
The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic
feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.

The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety,
is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
made so and kept so by the exertions of much better men than himself.

John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873) English economist and philosopher.

[Matt Wiser]

Post by d***@hotmail.com
Any good BLU-82 stories out there?

I remember reading one from Desert Storm; the first Daisy Cutter drop in early Feb was an
evening one, and when the bomb went off over the target area, an SAS team radioed in,
saying that someone had just set off a tac nuke. Another one had an MC-130 dropping a
bunch of leaflets saying "Tomorrow we're dropping the largest non-nuclear bomb in the world.
Leave your positions now." Next day, as advertised, another MC-130 dropped a BLU-82,
and the following day, another leaflet drop was made, saying "Don't say we didn't warn
you."

[Les Matheson]

During Desert Storm, I was in the AFSOF command center (planning an AC-130 mission) and
we knew what time the Talons were going to drop the BLU's.

The SAS guys were in the next office over and monitoring their radio nets from a team
off shore of Failaka Island when the first three went off (near simultaneous TOTs).

The radio call was "my god, I think the blokes just nuked them."

Les
F-4C, D, E, G WSO/EWO AC-130A EWO MC-130E EWO (ret)

Post by Matt Wiser

Post by d***@hotmail.com
Any good BLU-82 stories out there?

I remember reading one from Desert Storm; the first Daisy Cutter drop in early Feb was an
evening one, and when the bomb went off over the target area, an SAS team radioed in,
saying that someone had just set off a tac nuke. Another one had an MC-130 dropping a
bunch of leaflets saying "Tomorrow we're dropping the largest non-nuclear bomb in the world.
Leave your positions now." Next day, as advertised, another MC-130 dropped a BLU-82,
and the following day, another leaflet drop was made, saying "Don't say we didn't warn
you."

[Typhoon502]

Post by Les Matheson
During Desert Storm, I was in the AFSOF command center (planning an AC-130 mission) and
we knew what time the Talons were going to drop the BLU's.
The SAS guys were in the next office over and monitoring their radio nets from a team
off shore of Failaka Island when the first three went off (near simultaneous TOTs).
The radio call was "my god, I think the blokes just nuked them."

I know a former loadmaster who was in the back with one of those Big
BLUs. He said that the shockwave from the blast added altitude and
airspeed to the Hercs.